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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 01 Aug 19 10.19am
So now we should trust in the courts and the law to serve justice... does that not also apply to TR?
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 01 Aug 19 10.19am

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So now we should trust in the courts and the law to serve justice... does that not also apply to TR?

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Mapletree Croydon 01 Aug 19 10.52am
Originally posted by cryrst By no means is any child abuse anything but abhorrent let alone on a mass scale. It is and was wrong but without sounding harsh times have changed and for the better. Many things were not looked at as either serious or worth the time back then. Come on maple think about all the stuff that was going on and allowed back then which has now changed. Outside of this specifically, drink driving,no seat belts,racial abuse openly etc the list goes on. Its experience of these problems which give us protections nowadays. Ranting about the recent Ones being over reported against these historical ones is proving my points made. Take stock and wait for the court to decide who did and didnt do what and to whom which is what has happened with the recent gangs. The law has to deal with it. These aren't all highly historic, no more so in some cases than grooming gangs. It went on and on and the victims continue to suffer dreadfully. Justice is incredibly unlikely for anyone now and too many people are guilty of ignoring the problems to the point of complicity. You can be sure there will be other examples yet to come out, potentially with some new modus operandi And we haven't even begun to talk about Modern Slavery which is incredibly widespread. We need to focus on all aspects not get swept down only one path.
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Mapletree

Croydon 01 Aug 19 10.52am

Originally posted by cryrst

By no means is any child abuse anything but abhorrent let alone on a mass scale.
It is and was wrong but without sounding harsh times have changed and for the better.
Many things were not looked at as either serious or worth the time back then.
Come on maple think about all the stuff that was going on and allowed back then which has now changed.
Outside of this specifically, drink driving,no seat belts,racial abuse openly etc the list goes on.
Its experience of these problems which give us protections nowadays.
Ranting about the recent Ones being over reported against these historical ones is proving my points made.
Take stock and wait for the court to decide who did and didnt do what and to whom which is what has happened with the recent gangs.
The law has to deal with it.

These aren't all highly historic, no more so in some cases than grooming gangs. It went on and on and the victims continue to suffer dreadfully. Justice is incredibly unlikely for anyone now and too many people are guilty of ignoring the problems to the point of complicity.

You can be sure there will be other examples yet to come out, potentially with some new modus operandi

And we haven't even begun to talk about Modern Slavery which is incredibly widespread. We need to focus on all aspects not get swept down only one path.

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Mapletree Croydon 01 Aug 19 10.54am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Of course it's about recruitment, how you recruit for example....is this one person or a team interviewing, what's the oversight and so on. You make claims that I have little doubt have some validity but the whole picture would be far more nuanced. I don't personally believe that child abusers can completely take over a facility and just select other child abusers to the exclusion of others...I'm sure it happened that abusers teamed up.....but exclusivity seems far fetched to me....as is the idea that nobody checks.....complaints were filed since the sixties, so obviously there was checking. We have to see what went wrong. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Aug 2019 6.47am) And by the way you are making yourself look ridiculous by defending the indefensible. Pray tell, how do you select out a potential abuser at interview? Is it tattooed on their forehead? And also tell me why if the pay had been better potential abusers would not have applied, I am intrigued.
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Mapletree

Croydon 01 Aug 19 10.54am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Of course it's about recruitment, how you recruit for example....is this one person or a team interviewing, what's the oversight and so on.

You make claims that I have little doubt have some validity but the whole picture would be far more nuanced.

I don't personally believe that child abusers can completely take over a facility and just select other child abusers to the exclusion of others...I'm sure it happened that abusers teamed up.....but exclusivity seems far fetched to me....as is the idea that nobody checks.....complaints were filed since the sixties, so obviously there was checking. We have to see what went wrong.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Aug 2019 6.47am)

And by the way you are making yourself look ridiculous by defending the indefensible.

Pray tell, how do you select out a potential abuser at interview? Is it tattooed on their forehead?

And also tell me why if the pay had been better potential abusers would not have applied, I am intrigued.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 01 Aug 19 10.59am
Originally posted by cryrst By no means is any child abuse anything but abhorrent let alone on a mass scale. It is and was wrong but without sounding harsh times have changed and for the better. Many things were not looked at as either serious or worth the time back then. Come on maple think about all the stuff that was going on and allowed back then which has now changed. Outside of this specifically, drink driving,no seat belts,racial abuse openly etc the list goes on. Its experience of these problems which give us protections nowadays. Ranting about the recent Ones being over reported against these historical ones is proving my points made. Take stock and wait for the court to decide who did and didnt do what and to whom which is what has happened with the recent gangs. The law has to deal with it. Complete agree "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 01 Aug 19 10.59am

Originally posted by cryrst

Complete agree

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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dannyboy1978 01 Aug 19 11.22am
Originally posted by Mapletree But not the majority of child abusers. Your either stupid or avoiding the point. It is widely recognised knife crime is hugely disportnate to black people so with the same equation muslim's are disportnatly high in regards to child grooming gangs. Sadly abuse Happens all over the world but the two instances above have been imported when we wouldn't have had them before. Something went wrong! Head, sand , you. Edited by dannyboy1978 (01 Aug 2019 11.26am) Edited by dannyboy1978 (01 Aug 2019 11.30am)
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dannyboy1978

01 Aug 19 11.22am

Originally posted by Mapletree

But not the majority of child abusers.

Your either stupid or avoiding the point.
It is widely recognised knife crime is hugely disportnate to black people so with the same equation muslim's are disportnatly high in regards to child grooming gangs.
Sadly abuse Happens all over the world but the two instances above have been imported when we wouldn't have had them before.
Something went wrong!

Head, sand , you.

Edited by dannyboy1978 (01 Aug 2019 11.26am)

Edited by dannyboy1978 (01 Aug 2019 11.30am)

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 01 Aug 19 12.03pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Who never existed. Urban myth. Sadly, neither did Master Bates and Seaman Staines. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 01 Aug 19 12.03pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Who never existed.

Urban myth.

Sadly, neither did Master Bates and Seaman Staines.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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cryrst The garden of England 01 Aug 19 12.03pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow So now we should trust in the courts and the law to serve justice... does that not also apply to TR? And the law made the case and sentenced as they felt fit on TR. The fact some of us feel it was wrong doesnt make , us right wing bigots. That ship ,for now has sailed. The TR case is somewhat an example of a slightly tainted justice system where previous is sometimes spuriously used when it shouldn't be according to our laws. Back to this historic abuse and the crimes committed. I would like to see any guilty parties fully held to account for their crimes but surely it is not illogical to presume that some cases again may be for ,shall we say a bit of a payout. It has happened; like now as beech got 22k for a Saville accusation. Find the guilty ones and lock em up but dont tar all former care home workers, as it should not be the case that all are presumed guilty. Our system works the other way around.
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cryrst

The garden of England 01 Aug 19 12.03pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

So now we should trust in the courts and the law to serve justice... does that not also apply to TR?

And the law made the case and sentenced as they felt fit on TR.
The fact some of us feel it was wrong doesnt make , us right wing bigots.
That ship ,for now has sailed.
The TR case is somewhat an example of a slightly tainted justice system where previous is sometimes spuriously used when it shouldn't be according to our laws.
Back to this historic abuse and the crimes committed.
I would like to see any guilty parties fully held to account for their crimes but surely it is not illogical to presume that some cases again may be for ,shall we say a bit of a payout.
It has happened; like now as beech got 22k for a Saville accusation.
Find the guilty ones and lock em up but dont tar all former care home workers, as it should not be the case that all are presumed guilty.
Our system works the other way around.

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cryrst The garden of England 01 Aug 19 12.07pm
Originally posted by Mapletree These aren't all highly historic, no more so in some cases than grooming gangs. It went on and on and the victims continue to suffer dreadfully. Justice is incredibly unlikely for anyone now and too many people are guilty of ignoring the problems to the point of complicity. You can be sure there will be other examples yet to come out, potentially with some new modus operandi And we haven't even begun to talk about Modern Slavery which is incredibly widespread. We need to focus on all aspects not get swept down only one path. I do hope your modern slavery line isnt going to include low paid workers. There is a difference in the two things. Two guys just got jailed yesterday for 8 and 4 years for slavery. Not enough imo but proof that it is being investigated and actioned on.
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cryrst

The garden of England 01 Aug 19 12.07pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

You can be sure there will be other examples yet to come out, potentially with some new modus operandi

And we haven't even begun to talk about Modern Slavery which is incredibly widespread. We need to focus on all aspects not get swept down only one path.

I do hope your modern slavery line isnt going to include low paid workers.
There is a difference in the two things.
Two guys just got jailed yesterday for 8 and 4 years for slavery.
Not enough imo but proof that it is being investigated and actioned on.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 01 Aug 19 12.47pm
Originally posted by cryrst And the law made the case and sentenced as they felt fit on TR. The fact some of us feel it was wrong doesnt make , us right wing bigots. That ship ,for now has sailed. The TR case is somewhat an example of a slightly tainted justice system where previous is sometimes spuriously used when it shouldn't be according to our laws. Back to this historic abuse and the crimes committed. I would like to see any guilty parties fully held to account for their crimes but surely it is not illogical to presume that some cases again may be for ,shall we say a bit of a payout. It has happened; like now as beech got 22k for a Saville accusation. Find the guilty ones and lock em up but dont tar all former care home workers, as it should not be the case that all are presumed guilty. Our system works the other way around. I didn’t say it does - you have a bizarre habit of contesting points that are not being made by anyone but yourself. You do it below on the ‘low paid workers’ comment as well. I’ve read for months on here about how corrupt the courts are for convicting Robinson, and he was only involved because conentional policing was not achieving the results - now, when the abusers are of a different persuasion, the summary is that ‘the law has to deal with it’. If it was a corrupt system for TR, then it’s a corrupt system full stop - you can’t have it both ways.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 01 Aug 19 12.47pm

Originally posted by cryrst

And the law made the case and sentenced as they felt fit on TR.
The fact some of us feel it was wrong doesnt make , us right wing bigots.
That ship ,for now has sailed.
The TR case is somewhat an example of a slightly tainted justice system where previous is sometimes spuriously used when it shouldn't be according to our laws.
Back to this historic abuse and the crimes committed.
I would like to see any guilty parties fully held to account for their crimes but surely it is not illogical to presume that some cases again may be for ,shall we say a bit of a payout.
It has happened; like now as beech got 22k for a Saville accusation.
Find the guilty ones and lock em up but dont tar all former care home workers, as it should not be the case that all are presumed guilty.
Our system works the other way around.

I didn’t say it does - you have a bizarre habit of contesting points that are not being made by anyone but yourself. You do it below on the ‘low paid workers’ comment as well.

I’ve read for months on here about how corrupt the courts are for convicting Robinson, and he was only involved because conentional policing was not achieving the results - now, when the abusers are of a different persuasion, the summary is that ‘the law has to deal with it’.

If it was a corrupt system for TR, then it’s a corrupt system full stop - you can’t have it both ways.

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Stirlingsays 01 Aug 19 1.23pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Any Tommy Robinson discussion is littered with people suggesting that if you don’t agree with TR you must be in support of the grooming gangs, or at least lack sympathy with the victims. 'If you don't agree with Robinson?'.....I'd suggest it's a bit more than that....Many of us have various criticisms of Robinson. Besides all you are doing is describing the two different camps in a very generalised way. As Maple criticises he is being criticised. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Aug 2019 1.39pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

01 Aug 19 1.23pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Any Tommy Robinson discussion is littered with people suggesting that if you don’t agree with TR you must be in support of the grooming gangs, or at least lack sympathy with the victims.

'If you don't agree with Robinson?'.....I'd suggest it's a bit more than that....Many of us have various criticisms of Robinson.

Besides all you are doing is describing the two different camps in a very generalised way.

As Maple criticises he is being criticised.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Aug 2019 1.39pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 01 Aug 19 1.24pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I posted the point as I did exactly because it was obvious this would be your reaction. Put simply, like the heroic Tommy Robinson, you really aren't that engaged in concerns about child abuse in general. To imply that all the new cases are pakistanis is ridiculous. And to imply that this is a one-off is similarly either myopic or just wilful misrepresentation. I recommend you read my earlier posts on this topic on other threads to see the scale and number of such cases over decades. You could argue that abuse of people inside institutions is actually most heinous, these poor girls and boys had no other life and nowhere to turn. They spent their whole days and nights in mortal fear. Shall I introduce you to one so you can see the look in his eyes? I would point you to the statistics on recent child abuse. It is highly amusing to see you accuse me of having an agenda when almost every post you have ever made about recent cases is to criticise Tommy Robinson or to underplay the role of immigrant gangs in those cases. Which one of us has the agenda?
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Hrolf The Ganger

01 Aug 19 1.24pm

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Originally posted by Mapletree

I posted the point as I did exactly because it was obvious this would be your reaction. Put simply, like the heroic Tommy Robinson, you really aren't that engaged in concerns about child abuse in general.

To imply that all the new cases are pakistanis is ridiculous. And to imply that this is a one-off is similarly either myopic or just wilful misrepresentation. I recommend you read my earlier posts on this topic on other threads to see the scale and number of such cases over decades. You could argue that abuse of people inside institutions is actually most heinous, these poor girls and boys had no other life and nowhere to turn. They spent their whole days and nights in mortal fear. Shall I introduce you to one so you can see the look in his eyes?

I would point you to the statistics on recent child abuse.

It is highly amusing to see you accuse me of having an agenda when almost every post you have ever made about recent cases is to criticise Tommy Robinson or to underplay the role of immigrant gangs in those cases.

Which one of us has the agenda?

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Stirlingsays 01 Aug 19 1.26pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Do some research then read my post again. There is no sign that people looked to bring in like minded mates. But once in such people enjoyed the environment (God help us) and apparently knew others were also abusers. So the worst tended to stay and would turn a blind eye to the others. But some utilised that knowledge to get more power. Any complaints were brushed under the carpet and almost nothing has been done in 50 years. I am shocked at your blasé approach to this. It is a massive scandal yet has never been fully addressed Why has it not received the attention and more to the point actual justice that seems to have been focused on the grooming gangs? 50 years for goodness sake, and you say we have to wait to see. This is why I get angry. ? Of course you should be angry, if what you say is accurate. I'm entirely open to the idea that the system is corrupt....and indeed already believe that....you are the one who has been arguing in support of the state in regards to Robinson and now you're suggesting otherwise for a different set of people? What on earth leads you to call me 'blase'? What are you suggesting then other than wait for the state's response? I'm interested to know. How ironic that you now seem so offended about scandals being brushed under the carpet. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Aug 2019 1.29pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

01 Aug 19 1.26pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Do some research then read my post again.

There is no sign that people looked to bring in like minded mates. But once in such people enjoyed the environment (God help us) and apparently knew others were also abusers. So the worst tended to stay and would turn a blind eye to the others. But some utilised that knowledge to get more power.

Any complaints were brushed under the carpet and almost nothing has been done in 50 years.

I am shocked at your blasé approach to this. It is a massive scandal yet has never been fully addressed

Why has it not received the attention and more to the point actual justice that seems to have been focused on the grooming gangs?

50 years for goodness sake, and you say we have to wait to see. This is why I get angry.

? Of course you should be angry, if what you say is accurate. I'm entirely open to the idea that the system is corrupt....and indeed already believe that....you are the one who has been arguing in support of the state in regards to Robinson and now you're suggesting otherwise for a different set of people? What on earth leads you to call me 'blase'?

What are you suggesting then other than wait for the state's response? I'm interested to know.

How ironic that you now seem so offended about scandals being brushed under the carpet.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Aug 2019 1.29pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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