Dougie Freedman

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Dougie Freedman

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matthau South Croydon 11 Jul 19 11.38am
Originally posted by stevo Loved him as a player but seriously what is he bringing in his new role?? I think it was Becky on another thread made a good point Roy has a year left. If we use all money we have now and tie new players down to big contracts, we’ll have nothing for new manager to use. We are not a big club and once spending money is all used one summer, we have to miss a window so to get back on track We’ll prob go for clyne as rb is essential. But we’ll also prob just loan a striker again
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matthau

South Croydon 11 Jul 19 11.38am

Originally posted by stevo

Loved him as a player but seriously what is he bringing in his new role??

I think it was Becky on another thread made a good point

Roy has a year left. If we use all money we have now and tie new players down to big contracts, we’ll have nothing for new manager to use. We are not a big club and once spending money is all used one summer, we have to miss a window so to get back on track

We’ll prob go for clyne as rb is essential. But we’ll also prob just loan a striker again

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 11 Jul 19 12.06pm
Originally posted by matthau I think it was Becky on another thread made a good point Roy has a year left. If we use all money we have now and tie new players down to big contracts, we’ll have nothing for new manager to use. We are not a big club and once spending money is all used one summer, we have to miss a window so to get back on track We’ll prob go for clyne as rb is essential. But we’ll also prob just loan a striker again Which is what I was saying regarding the spend/conserve cycle. But apparently some fans don’t ‘buy into that.’ Loads of clubs have to do it. Unfortunately we’re hamstrung more often because of our wage bill trying to stay in this league. It is a big achievement but it isn’t building a solid foundation. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 11 Jul 19 12.06pm

Originally posted by matthau

I think it was Becky on another thread made a good point

We’ll prob go for clyne as rb is essential. But we’ll also prob just loan a striker again

Which is what I was saying regarding the spend/conserve cycle. But apparently some fans don’t ‘buy into that.’

Loads of clubs have to do it. Unfortunately we’re hamstrung more often because of our wage bill trying to stay in this league. It is a big achievement but it isn’t building a solid foundation.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 11 Jul 19 12.09pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Saints are serial regulation battlers though, doesn't seem to do them much good ! It’s been discussed on HOL that you use a combination of methods. Southampton have done that one and we’ve spent loads on wages and a couple of players we had no idea where else to buy someone. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 11 Jul 19 12.09pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Saints are serial regulation battlers though, doesn't seem to do them much good !

It’s been discussed on HOL that you use a combination of methods. Southampton have done that one and we’ve spent loads on wages and a couple of players we had no idea where else to buy someone.

COYP

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Isley46 Sanderstead 11 Jul 19 12.39pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I think Southampton are a better example - they’ve had the likes of Mane, Lovren, Van Dijk and Clyne come and go over the last few years, making a massive profit on each, and getting at least 12 months of high level performance out of them. They’ve also had the likes of Chambers and Lallana move on from their academy. If I’m a young domestic/overseas player trying to make it to the PL now, i’d be looking at Saints as an ideal first club to secure playing time and development within the Prem, safe in the knowledge that if you do kick on and generate interest from higher up the table, they are willing to listen to it. We need to position ourselves the same way. The Academy facilities at Southampton are probably the best in the country and I believe Southampton may also run a 'Shadow' academy in London. Until the Palace Academy is upgraded (which I think is a work in progress) Palace will continue to fail to attract the young 'gems'. The competition in London from Cobham, Hale End and even Motspur Park is too great an attraction for young players and their parents who normally also have to 'endure' the numerous training sessions each week. In the Academy facilities league, Beckenham is presently below Charlton and probably on a level with Millwall. Yes we have a great catchment area but at present we don't have the infrastructure to exploit it. Maybe after a few more years in the Premiership this will change.
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Isley46

Sanderstead 11 Jul 19 12.39pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I think Southampton are a better example - they’ve had the likes of Mane, Lovren, Van Dijk and Clyne come and go over the last few years, making a massive profit on each, and getting at least 12 months of high level performance out of them. They’ve also had the likes of Chambers and Lallana move on from their academy.

If I’m a young domestic/overseas player trying to make it to the PL now, i’d be looking at Saints as an ideal first club to secure playing time and development within the Prem, safe in the knowledge that if you do kick on and generate interest from higher up the table, they are willing to listen to it. We need to position ourselves the same way.

The Academy facilities at Southampton are probably the best in the country and I believe Southampton may also run a 'Shadow' academy in London.
Until the Palace Academy is upgraded (which I think is a work in progress) Palace will continue to fail to attract the young 'gems'. The competition in London from Cobham, Hale End and even Motspur Park is too great an attraction for young players and their parents who normally also have to 'endure' the numerous training sessions each week. In the Academy facilities league, Beckenham is presently below Charlton and probably on a level with Millwall. Yes we have a great catchment area but at present we don't have the infrastructure to exploit it. Maybe after a few more years in the Premiership this will change.

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Canterbury Palace Whitstable 11 Jul 19 12.58pm
Originally posted by aashman12 Really piss poor recruitment, list our best xi subs and see how poor that recruitment is, we're 2-3 players away from a very good prem team that we know can go toe to toe with anyone in the league. The first XI is decent but our squad depth remains atrocious, as demonstrated by our huge dips in form whenever we suffer injuries. Furthermore, we are hugely reliant on a single player and rarely win without him. Our strikeforce is utterly laughable, none of them could score in a brothel and I've known coma patients to spend less time in a hospital bed than Connor Wickham, who we have mysteriously awarded a new contract to. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...
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Canterbury Palace

Whitstable 11 Jul 19 12.58pm

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Originally posted by aashman12

Really piss poor recruitment, list our best xi subs and see how poor that recruitment is, we're 2-3 players away from a very good prem team that we know can go toe to toe with anyone in the league.

The first XI is decent but our squad depth remains atrocious, as demonstrated by our huge dips in form whenever we suffer injuries. Furthermore, we are hugely reliant on a single player and rarely win without him.

Our strikeforce is utterly laughable, none of them could score in a brothel and I've known coma patients to spend less time in a hospital bed than Connor Wickham, who we have mysteriously awarded a new contract to.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 11 Jul 19 1.32pm
Originally posted by Isley46 The Academy facilities at Southampton are probably the best in the country and I believe Southampton may also run a 'Shadow' academy in London. Until the Palace Academy is upgraded (which I think is a work in progress) Palace will continue to fail to attract the young 'gems'. The competition in London from Cobham, Hale End and even Motspur Park is too great an attraction for young players and their parents who normally also have to 'endure' the numerous training sessions each week. In the Academy facilities league, Beckenham is presently below Charlton and probably on a level with Millwall. Yes we have a great catchment area but at present we don't have the infrastructure to exploit it. Maybe after a few more years in the Premiership this will change. Well sure, but none of Mane, Lovren, Van Dijk or Clyne had anything to do with the academy (Wanyama is the other I missed off that list).
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 11 Jul 19 1.32pm

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Originally posted by Isley46

Well sure, but none of Mane, Lovren, Van Dijk or Clyne had anything to do with the academy (Wanyama is the other I missed off that list).

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 11 Jul 19 1.35pm
Originally posted by Tyrelli The Zaha situation is simply down to money, he has a long contract, Arsenal are not matching our valuation (to the point of a incredibly meagre offer, designed only to unsettle the player) if they matched our valuation then I’m sure no one would stand in Zaha way and let him leave. You could argue that setting an unreasonable valuation that you know no one will meet is the same as standing in his way.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 11 Jul 19 1.35pm

Originally posted by Tyrelli

The Zaha situation is simply down to money, he has a long contract, Arsenal are not matching our valuation (to the point of a incredibly meagre offer, designed only to unsettle the player) if they matched our valuation then I’m sure no one would stand in Zaha way and let him leave.

You could argue that setting an unreasonable valuation that you know no one will meet is the same as standing in his way.

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DutchEagleJohan Vlissingen, Netherlands 11 Jul 19 1.49pm
I wonder how important facilities really are. Not saying they do not matter, but really what counts is a culture in a club where youth players will get a chance and where there is believe they can make the first team. I think that attitude is lacking in nearly the whole PL including ourselves. Money makes it easy to 'go safe" where surely as far as squad players are concerned we should be looking at academy players. That is apart from something that I feel is important but does not seem to get mentioned much. The feel of a youth player coming through in terms of connecting with the crowd. If Wilf goes, there are no players left at all in our starting line up that have their roots in the club. Originally posted by Isley46 The Academy facilities at Southampton are probably the best in the country and I believe Southampton may also run a 'Shadow' academy in London. Until the Palace Academy is upgraded (which I think is a work in progress) Palace will continue to fail to attract the young 'gems'. The competition in London from Cobham, Hale End and even Motspur Park is too great an attraction for young players and their parents who normally also have to 'endure' the numerous training sessions each week. In the Academy facilities league, Beckenham is presently below Charlton and probably on a level with Millwall. Yes we have a great catchment area but at present we don't have the infrastructure to exploit it. Maybe after a few more years in the Premiership this will change.
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DutchEagleJohan

Vlissingen, Netherlands 11 Jul 19 1.49pm

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I wonder how important facilities really are. Not saying they do not matter, but really what counts is a culture in a club where youth players will get a chance and where there is believe they can make the first team. I think that attitude is lacking in nearly the whole PL including ourselves. Money makes it easy to 'go safe" where surely as far as squad players are concerned we should be looking at academy players.

That is apart from something that I feel is important but does not seem to get mentioned much. The feel of a youth player coming through in terms of connecting with the crowd. If Wilf goes, there are no players left at all in our starting line up that have their roots in the club.

Originally posted by Isley46

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Eaglecoops CR3 11 Jul 19 1.54pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow You could argue that setting an unreasonable valuation that you know no one will meet is the same as standing in his way. Perhaps you could elaborate and explain what is unreasonable about a £70,£80 or even £100m valuation of Wilf? He is generally acknowledged as an irreplaceable player in that he does things other players simply can’t do. The top teams know this but most are not prepared to risk his lack of consistency. When you see what Suarez, Coutinho, Mahrez and Richarlison sold for then Wilf’s valuation is not wildly out by any means. I had an argument with an Arsenal fan the other night who was saying he is only worth £40m. I said, try and find a player that can do what Wilf does and go buy him for £40m because guess what, they ain’t out there.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 11 Jul 19 1.54pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

You could argue that setting an unreasonable valuation that you know no one will meet is the same as standing in his way.

Perhaps you could elaborate and explain what is unreasonable about a £70,£80 or even £100m valuation of Wilf? He is generally acknowledged as an irreplaceable player in that he does things other players simply can’t do. The top teams know this but most are not prepared to risk his lack of consistency. When you see what Suarez, Coutinho, Mahrez and Richarlison sold for then Wilf’s valuation is not wildly out by any means.

I had an argument with an Arsenal fan the other night who was saying he is only worth £40m. I said, try and find a player that can do what Wilf does and go buy him for £40m because guess what, they ain’t out there.

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Isley46 Sanderstead 11 Jul 19 3.08pm
Originally posted by DutchEagleJohan I wonder how important facilities really are. Not saying they do not matter, but really what counts is a culture in a club where youth players will get a chance and where there is believe they can make the first team. I think that attitude is lacking in nearly the whole PL including ourselves. Money makes it easy to 'go safe" where surely as far as squad players are concerned we should be looking at academy players. I think a history of promotion to the first team whilst being a good thing is not necessarily what is on the mind of the kid entering the Academy system. Most will jump at the first offer of a schoolboy contract – this could be at the age of 9 – and be thankful of the offer (but may regret it later!) If the child is a ‘gem’ and has the interest of a few clubs then the kid and the parents may get to sample what facilities and training are on offer from various clubs (without committing to more than the 8 week trial). This will make a huge difference. Once you then factor what some clubs will provide - travel assistance (from School and back home after training), paid for trips away on tour, free food at training, training kits and free boots for various playing surfaces – Day release from school - the facilities start to make a big influence on decisions to commit to sign. Signing is a big commitment not only for the kid but for the family. The contract is greatly in the favour of the club until the kid reaches ‘Scholarship’ level. With no guarantee of ever being offered a Scholarship most would choose to spend the formative years surrounded by fantastic facilities. At the moment, I would guess that unless Palace can pick up these kids at 9 or 10 then most of our Academy players would have already attended ID games or trials at Chelsea, Arsenal, Fulham and not been taken on.
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Isley46

Sanderstead 11 Jul 19 3.08pm

Originally posted by DutchEagleJohan

I think a history of promotion to the first team whilst being a good thing is not necessarily what is on the mind of the kid entering the Academy system.

Most will jump at the first offer of a schoolboy contract – this could be at the age of 9 – and be thankful of the offer (but may regret it later!)
If the child is a ‘gem’ and has the interest of a few clubs then the kid and the parents may get to sample what facilities and training are on offer from various clubs (without committing to more than the 8 week trial). This will make a huge difference. Once you then factor what some clubs will provide - travel assistance (from School and back home after training), paid for trips away on tour, free food at training, training kits and free boots for various playing surfaces – Day release from school - the facilities start to make a big influence on decisions to commit to sign. Signing is a big commitment not only for the kid but for the family. The contract is greatly in the favour of the club until the kid reaches ‘Scholarship’ level. With no guarantee of ever being offered a Scholarship most would choose to spend the formative years surrounded by fantastic facilities.

At the moment, I would guess that unless Palace can pick up these kids at 9 or 10 then most of our Academy players would have already attended ID games or trials at Chelsea, Arsenal, Fulham and not been taken on.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 11 Jul 19 4.07pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops Perhaps you could elaborate and explain what is unreasonable about a £70,£80 or even £100m valuation of Wilf? He is generally acknowledged as an irreplaceable player in that he does things other players simply can’t do. The top teams know this but most are not prepared to risk his lack of consistency. When you see what Suarez, Coutinho, Mahrez and Richarlison sold for then Wilf’s valuation is not wildly out by any means. I had an argument with an Arsenal fan the other night who was saying he is only worth £40m. I said, try and find a player that can do what Wilf does and go buy him for £40m because guess what, they ain’t out there. I think £60-70m is reasonable, but £100m certainly not. Suarez was sold for £65m and he was considerably better than Zaha - I love Wilf but he’s not even in the same league. Richarlison had just turned 20 and went for £50m - I think Zaha is a better player, don’t get me wrong, but if I could get two £50m 20 year olds of Richalison’s potential, or one 26 year old Zaha, I know which I would pick. Mahrez went for £60m having been the best player for the league winners the year before - 17 goals and 11 assists; Wilf has never put up numbers close to that. Coutinho they massively overpaid, but still a higher pedrigeee and better age than Wilf.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 11 Jul 19 4.07pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

I think £60-70m is reasonable, but £100m certainly not.

Suarez was sold for £65m and he was considerably better than Zaha - I love Wilf but he’s not even in the same league.

Richarlison had just turned 20 and went for £50m - I think Zaha is a better player, don’t get me wrong, but if I could get two £50m 20 year olds of Richalison’s potential, or one 26 year old Zaha, I know which I would pick.

Mahrez went for £60m having been the best player for the league winners the year before - 17 goals and 11 assists; Wilf has never put up numbers close to that.

Coutinho they massively overpaid, but still a higher pedrigeee and better age than Wilf.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 11 Jul 19 4.13pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I think £60-70m is reasonable, but £100m certainly not. Suarez was sold for £65m and he was considerably better than Zaha - I love Wilf but he’s not even in the same league. Richarlison had just turned 20 and went for £50m - I think Zaha is a better player, don’t get me wrong, but if I could get two £50m 20 year olds of Richalison’s potential, or one 26 year old Zaha, I know which I would pick. Mahrez went for £60m having been the best player for the league winners the year before - 17 goals and 11 assists; Wilf has never put up numbers close to that. Coutinho they massively overpaid, but still a higher pedrigeee and better age than Wilf. I think comparative prices are void. It does not matter how much other players are going or have gone for, or how much another club prices Wilf at. As far as we're concerned, Wilf may just be worth up to £100 million for us and if noone is going to match that then it makes no business sense whatsoever to sell him. It's unfortunate for Wilf, I wouldn't begrudge him a move to a Champions League club (as much as I love him) and I think CPFC are taking the same stance - if the right offer is made he can go. Just looks quite unlikely to happen. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 11 Jul 19 4.13pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I think £60-70m is reasonable, but £100m certainly not.

Suarez was sold for £65m and he was considerably better than Zaha - I love Wilf but he’s not even in the same league.

Mahrez went for £60m having been the best player for the league winners the year before - 17 goals and 11 assists; Wilf has never put up numbers close to that.

Coutinho they massively overpaid, but still a higher pedrigeee and better age than Wilf.

I think comparative prices are void.

It does not matter how much other players are going or have gone for, or how much another club prices Wilf at.

As far as we're concerned, Wilf may just be worth up to £100 million for us and if noone is going to match that then it makes no business sense whatsoever to sell him.

It's unfortunate for Wilf, I wouldn't begrudge him a move to a Champions League club (as much as I love him) and I think CPFC are taking the same stance - if the right offer is made he can go. Just looks quite unlikely to happen.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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