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are we not as rich as fans believe
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 TheExpatEagle  11 Jul 18 8.53am |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Perhaps I don't understand FFP rules? I believed clubs had to spend within their means. That term was defined not by the depth of pocket of the owner, but by the filed balance sheet. Thus, man utd have collosal earnings and thus can buy who they like practically unrestricted by ffp. Palace are not rich enough to simply splash out on any marquee signings they fancy. In time, the earnings will continue to rise and with it the spending limit imposed by ffp. As I said, perhaps I dont understand the rules? I think you summed it up well.
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| TheExpatEagle 11 Jul 18 8.56am |
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Originally posted by bexleydave
You'd need to do your own research, and I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of how it's done, but there are some grey accounting practises that enable the less than scrupulously honest to put money into a club, for a purpose that doesn't impact on FFP, but ends up used for purposes other than that for which it appeared to be intended. Yes, a rich owner can put money into a club but, if memory serves, if it is a gift and does not expect it to be paid back or receive any form of payment in return in the form of shares or other assets. In other words, if Roman put £50m into Chelsea to buy a striker he would not expect to get this money back. It isn't a loan but purely a gift. Our owners, particularly the Americans wouldn't give money away. Steve might but the Americans see us as a money maker.
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bexleydave  Barnehurst 11 Jul 18 9.13am |
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Originally posted by TheExpatEagle
Yes, a rich owner can put money into a club but, if memory serves, if it is a gift and does not expect it to be paid back or receive any form of payment in return in the form of shares or other assets. In other words, if Roman put £50m into Chelsea to buy a striker he would not expect to get this money back. It isn't a loan but purely a gift. Our owners, particularly the Americans wouldn't give money away. Steve might but the Americans see us as a money maker. Yes, I definitely recall reading something about "gifts" and I also read about a wrinkle that involved shifting some of your debt to 'community engagement' or some such vague term, that could be used to circumvent FFP rules.
Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum) |
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| buzzby West Sussex 12 Jul 18 10.30am |
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FFP, its all smoke screens and mirrors. i for one are fed up with Palace using that excuse not to bring anyone in. Just one example last season. Take into account wages etc, where are they in the FFP league, it's a load of tosh. The board will use any excuse not to spend, thats obvious. it's 4 weeks until the window closes, and once again we are a country mile behind all the other premier league clubs, including the promoted teams. It was obvious last season when we had injuries that our squad was not good enough, and that we needed to bring in at least 4 quality players. Roy has already stated that we need quality purchases to avoid flirting with relegation this season. Also, bringing in quality keeps your existing quality at the club, and also shows the clubs ambition. Every season is the same, we are inept when it comes to adding to the squad. do we want to progress and invest wisely in players, or do we want to flirt with relegation
rub a dub dub who's buying the next round in the Pub? |
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| JohnB 12 Jul 18 10.41am |
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I may be completely wrong as the FFP rules change every now and then but I think owners can contribute up to £90m of the calculated income towards FFP. Clubs can not make a loss of more than £15m over a 3 year period or face a points deduction (or 105m over 3 years with the 90m owner contribution) Wages can't exceed the £7m increase per season or face a fine based on the overspend. Based on that, I have no idea how West Ham have gone so crazy this window. Freeing up some big wages in Cabaye, Sako, Lee, Wards reduced wages etc. should allow us to make some moves in the market but I wouldn't expect us to spend too much either.
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DutchEagleJohan  Vlissingen, Netherlands 12 Jul 18 11.23am |
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Can not believe there are still people believing we have not spent. Have a look at this and you will see what you write is nonsense. Another question is how well the money was spent, but stating we live on the cheap is a major misunderstanding. Originally posted by buzzby
FFP, its all smoke screens and mirrors. i for one are fed up with Palace using that excuse not to bring anyone in. Just one example last season. Take into account wages etc, where are they in the FFP league, it's a load of tosh. The board will use any excuse not to spend, thats obvious. it's 4 weeks until the window closes, and once again we are a country mile behind all the other premier league clubs, including the promoted teams. It was obvious last season when we had injuries that our squad was not good enough, and that we needed to bring in at least 4 quality players. Roy has already stated that we need quality purchases to avoid flirting with relegation this season. Also, bringing in quality keeps your existing quality at the club, and also shows the clubs ambition. Every season is the same, we are inept when it comes to adding to the squad. do we want to progress and invest wisely in players, or do we want to flirt with relegation
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Jul 18 12.19pm |
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Originally posted by JohnB
I may be completely wrong as the FFP rules change every now and then but I think owners can contribute up to £90m of the calculated income towards FFP. Clubs can not make a loss of more than £15m over a 3 year period or face a points deduction (or 105m over 3 years with the 90m owner contribution) Wages can't exceed the £7m increase per season or face a fine based on the overspend. Based on that, I have no idea how West Ham have gone so crazy this window. Freeing up some big wages in Cabaye, Sako, Lee, Wards reduced wages etc. should allow us to make some moves in the market but I wouldn't expect us to spend too much either. They were quite prudent last summer and to some extent it cost Bilic his job and got them in trouble. Some of the ffp is measured every year but over 3 seasons.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Jul 18 12.22pm |
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Originally posted by buzzby
FFP, its all smoke screens and mirrors. i for one are fed up with Palace using that excuse not to bring anyone in. Just one example last season. Take into account wages etc, where are they in the FFP league, it's a load of tosh. The board will use any excuse not to spend, thats obvious. it's 4 weeks until the window closes, and once again we are a country mile behind all the other premier league clubs, including the promoted teams. It was obvious last season when we had injuries that our squad was not good enough, and that we needed to bring in at least 4 quality players. Roy has already stated that we need quality purchases to avoid flirting with relegation this season. Also, bringing in quality keeps your existing quality at the club, and also shows the clubs ambition. Every season is the same, we are inept when it comes to adding to the squad. do we want to progress and invest wisely in players, or do we want to flirt with relegation Is that a net figure by subtracting the £75 mil sale of Lukaku plus £25 mil possible add ons I think? I doubt it. Again I think previously under kenwright their spending wasn’t big.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Jul 18 12.25pm |
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I think it’s fairly obvious it’s midfield and possibly RLC part of 2 preferred positions to fill that’ll be the hold up now and now and possibly a lot longer. Getting the right replacement for Cabaye is critical so we have to get that right, but obviously actually signed before the deadline rather than any nonsense.
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| michaelpearce grays 12 Jul 18 12.37pm |
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Originally posted by buzzby
FFP, its all smoke screens and mirrors. i for one are fed up with Palace using that excuse not to bring anyone in. Just one example last season. Take into account wages etc, where are they in the FFP league, it's a load of tosh. The board will use any excuse not to spend, thats obvious. it's 4 weeks until the window closes, and once again we are a country mile behind all the other premier league clubs, including the promoted teams. It was obvious last season when we had injuries that our squad was not good enough, and that we needed to bring in at least 4 quality players. Roy has already stated that we need quality purchases to avoid flirting with relegation this season. Also, bringing in quality keeps your existing quality at the club, and also shows the clubs ambition. Every season is the same, we are inept when it comes to adding to the squad. do we want to progress and invest wisely in players, or do we want to flirt with relegation with the sale of some players they have only spent a nett 91 million over 2 seasons we have spent a nett 80 million over the same period with less revenue,thats why i started the post asking do we need to tighten our belts
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| Nobbybm Dartford 13 Jul 18 9.20pm |
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Originally posted by bexleydave
You'd need to do your own research, and I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of how it's done, but there are some grey accounting practises that enable the less than scrupulously honest to put money into a club, for a purpose that doesn't impact on FFP, but ends up used for purposes other than that for which it appeared to be intended. I recall reading somewhere that Citeh ‘solved’ their FFP by doing a sponsorship deal on their shirts & the stadium that injects £100m+ into the club each year. Somehow it is seen as external investment despite the club's owners also owning the company concerned because they are separate legal entities.
Will this be five? It's gonna be five! It IS five! |
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| Midlands Eagle 14 Jul 18 7.26am |
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Originally posted by Nobbybm
I recall reading somewhere that Citeh ‘solved’ their FFP by doing a sponsorship deal on their shirts & the stadium that injects £100m+ into the club each year. Somehow it is seen as external investment despite the club's owners also owning the company concerned because they are separate legal entities. I think that's what bexleydave was referring to as "grey" accounting practices as the sponsorship was way above market value. It's a trick adopted by a few other clubs with wealthy owners including PSG
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