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Player of the year and young player of the year

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MikeCrete Flag Crete 01 May 18 12.30pm Send a Private Message to MikeCrete Add MikeCrete as a friend

POTY: Wilf, We have not got a point without him & would have been relegated a long while ago. Luca & Tomkins runners up.

YPOTY: Loftus-Cheek, AWB has not played enough games; as promising as he looks.

 

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 01 May 18 12.50pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Care to back up this statement with some examples? All I remember is the Huddersfield goal which resulted from a decent corner of his: [Link]

After many attempts all season.

When Townsend took a corner one time against Arsenal, it resulted in a goal by Tomkins: [Link]

First goal against Brighton (look it up) Second goal against Brighton (look it up) Free Kick against Huddersfield (look it up) shall I go on? Perhaps getting your facts correct would be a start.

 

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mattteo Flag 01 May 18 1.15pm Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

First goal against Brighton (look it up) Second goal against Brighton (look it up) Free Kick against Huddersfield (look it up) shall I go on? Perhaps getting your facts correct would be a start.

What Huddersfield free kick????? The one in the video I posted above? A decent effort, I admit, but nothing came of it. Maybe you're refferring to another Huddersfield match, but there haven't been any other goals against Huddersfield, so please tell me what free kick are you talking about please stop telling me about facts until you clarify this)

1st corner against Brighton was a trick. Kuddos to Luka for thinking it, but it doesn't show great corner delivery abilities.

All in all, 2 or 3 corners that resulted in goals in 30+ matches of taking corners in a Premier League season is not much

 

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 01 May 18 1.17pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Care to back up this statement with some examples? All I remember is the Huddersfield goal which resulted from a decent corner of his: [Link]

After many attempts all season.

When Townsend took a corner one time against Arsenal, it resulted in a goal by Tomkins: [Link]

Are you suggesting Townsend hasn't also been taking set pieces all season? Did you see his attempt direct from a free kick on the weekend?

To approach this as you normally would; Townsend has contributed 2 goals in 2956 mins this season, one of which was deflected, playing as a winger/forward for the vast majority of that - that's a return of roughly one goal every 16.5 games... to suggest he's been better than Luka is not even debatable.

For what it's worth; I would have Zaha as POTY and Loftus Cheek for YPOTY.

 

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eddiqc Flag Tunbridge wells 01 May 18 1.20pm Send a Private Message to eddiqc Add eddiqc as a friend

Mattteo.. I don't understand how you mind works, I think you're just trying to wind people up.

POTY: Milivojevic
YPOTY: RLC

Edited by eddiqc (01 May 2018 1.20pm)

 

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mattteo Flag 01 May 18 1.28pm Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Are you suggesting Townsend hasn't also been taking set pieces all season? Did you see his attempt direct from a free kick on the weekend?

To approach this as you normally would; Townsend has contributed 2 goals in 2956 mins this season,

Guess assists don't matter at all.....doesn't matter if you have the most assists in the squad or from the entire teams outside of top 6. If you don't score goals you're not a good player. For me, it's actually the players providing assists who do more work than the actual goalscorers. Or at least they are on the same level.

Look at this: Townsend dribbles the defenders, gets a penalty kick for Palace and Luka takes the penalty. Whose contribution is greater? I think Townsend could have also scored a penalty. But could have Luka made that dribbling?

[Link]

 

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 01 May 18 1.37pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Guess assists don't matter at all.....doesn't matter if you have the most assists in the squad or from the entire teams outside of top 6. If you don't score goals you're not a good player. For me, it's actually the players providing assists who do more work than the actual goalscorers. Or at least they are on the same level.

Look at this: Townsend dribbles the defenders, gets a penalty kick for Palace and Luka takes the penalty. Whose contribution is greater? I think Townsend could have also scored a penalty. But could have Luka made that dribbling?

[Link]

Nice deflection - I'll bear it in mind next time the goals/'minutes stats suit your argument and you use them again.

The Premier League website has Towsend at 6 assists, which is joint 24th in the league, along with the likes of Calvert-Lewin and Jordon Ibe and incidentally only one more than Benteke (who now has more goals).

6 assists and 2 goals in 3000 minutes as a forward - by any definition that's not a good return is it?

Benteke has 3 goals and 5 assists in 2187 minutes and you have absolutely rinsed him all season...

Your logic is not consistent.

 

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coulsdoneagle Flag London 01 May 18 1.57pm Send a Private Message to coulsdoneagle Add coulsdoneagle as a friend

AWB is easy. It’s not just about what the young player does for the first team but also a mark of progress, he was playing under 23s and stepped up to play against some of the biggest teams in the world and was MOM several times including against Huddersfield.

Zaha for POTY because if his excellent contributions.

Luka second and Tomkins third.

How anyone can doubt the importance of Luka is beyond me, his leadership on the pitch from having the bottle to smash vital penalties, to calming Zaha down and preventing him from being sent off several times, he doesn’t overplay the ball and makes the right decision most of the time.

 

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Dman Palace Flag Brixton 01 May 18 2.08pm Send a Private Message to Dman Palace Add Dman Palace as a friend


Wilfried Zaha is, without any doubt or consideration, our stand out POTY. (by a country mile)

Milivojevic has been brilliant and had a great season for sure... but no-one comes close to Wilf in terms of contribution and making such a difference. His positive influence is what has made us this season.

( and without him LM wouldn't have had so many set pieces to benefit from )

 

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mattteo Flag 01 May 18 2.11pm Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow


Benteke has 3 goals and 5 assists in 2187 minutes and you have absolutely rinsed him all season...


Taking penalties doesn;t mean the same!! That's why I'm ranting about Luka. He's a good enough player, but he's overrated because he is the designated penalty taker. Without all those penalty goals, people here would've said just "Oh, Luka, oh ok, he's a decent player, pretty good at holding the midfield". But now, people think he's seriously the team's second goalscorer!! Because of penalty goals.

Same for your example of Benteke. Every site I've seen mention 7 assists and 2 goals for Townsend. Maybe the PL one doesn't count obtainning a penalty as an assist (but it should, cause the Huddersfield 2nd goal was mostly his work getting that penalty). Plus, there's 1 more assist in the Cup against Huddersfield (a PL team). So that's 8 assists and 2 goals in 3000 minutes in a season. Maybe not amazing for a winger, but show me 3 more wingers outside the top 6 teams who have done this in 3000 minutes.

 

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MikeCrete Flag Crete 01 May 18 2.23pm Send a Private Message to MikeCrete Add MikeCrete as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Taking penalties doesn;t mean the same!! That's why I'm ranting about Luka. He's a good enough player, but he's overrated because he is the designated penalty taker. Without all those penalty goals, people here would've said just "Oh, Luka, oh ok, he's a decent player, pretty good at holding the midfield". But now, people think he's seriously the team's second goalscorer!! Because of penalty goals.

Same for your example of Benteke. Every site I've seen mention 7 assists and 2 goals for Townsend. Maybe the PL one doesn't count obtainning a penalty as an assist (but it should, cause the Huddersfield 2nd goal was mostly his work getting that penalty). Plus, there's 1 more assist in the Cup against Huddersfield (a PL team). So that's 8 assists and 2 goals in 3000 minutes in a season. Maybe not amazing for a winger, but show me 3 more wingers outside the top 6 teams who have done this in 3000 minutes.

Give Lokilo a go, pretty sure he would be no worse than Townsend.

 

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 01 May 18 2.36pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Taking penalties doesn;t mean the same!! That's why I'm ranting about Luka. He's a good enough player, but he's overrated because he is the designated penalty taker. Without all those penalty goals, people here would've said just "Oh, Luka, oh ok, he's a decent player, pretty good at holding the midfield". But now, people think he's seriously the team's second goalscorer!! Because of penalty goals.

Same for your example of Benteke. Every site I've seen mention 7 assists and 2 goals for Townsend. Maybe the PL one doesn't count obtainning a penalty as an assist (but it should, cause the Huddersfield 2nd goal was mostly his work getting that penalty). Plus, there's 1 more assist in the Cup against Huddersfield (a PL team). So that's 8 assists and 2 goals in 3000 minutes in a season. Maybe not amazing for a winger, but show me 3 more wingers outside the top 6 teams who have done this in 3000 minutes.

Ok, so even if you discredit Benteke's penalty (which is a nonsense argument, but we'll entertain it), that's 2 goals and 5 assists in 2187 mins compared to Townsend's 2 goals and 6 assists in 3000 minutes - the point still stands. Make it 7 assists for Townsend if you want.. It still stands.

I specifically remember you saying that Benteke's cup goals last year shouldn't be 'counted' when people highlighted that he had 17 goals, so to suggest Townsend's cup assist can now count is just more hypocrisy.

Off the top of my head, 3 wingers outside the top six with better numbers;

- Mahrez
- Shaqiri
- Zaha
- Gross (not quite a winger, but comparable role to Townsend)

 

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