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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Feb 18 8.08pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Do you have any that says it isn't? Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 Feb 2018 8.00pm) Cheers. Alright, if I have to I’ll go first then. Note Im coming from an objective standpoint, something a lot of you with emotive, subjective and unsubstantiated opinions (pro tip: an opinion is different from fact) would do well to grasp. Rather than link you to one article, I simply entered a non biased search term into google and hey presto. Many articles and journals that proclaim no evidence to suggest it is in any way more harmful than same sex parenting. Whether there needs to be more research done is another matter, but you can only have a proper debate on this if you actually bother to read around the subject first. Misinformation and unsubstantiated opinion masquerading as fact is one of my pet hates. Your move
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Feb 18 8.09pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
So? If you can explain that rationally, with qualifiers to backup your implication we’ll have a proper debate going. My experiences of life tells me that having both parents, mother and father, is more likely to produce a child who will grow up with fewer insecurities and hang ups.
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Feb 18 8.12pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Cheers. Alright, if I have to I’ll go first then. Note Im coming from an objective standpoint, something a lot of you with emotive, subjective and unsubstantiated opinions (pro tip: an opinion is different from fact) would do well to grasp. Rather than link you to one article, I simply entered a non biased search term into google and hey presto. Many articles and journals that proclaim no evidence to suggest it is in any way more harmful than same sex parenting. Whether there needs to be more research done is another matter, but you can only have a proper debate on this if you actually bother to read around the subject first. Misinformation and unsubstantiated opinion masquerading as fact is one of my pet hates. Your move
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Feb 18 8.12pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
My experiences of life tells me that having both parents, mother and father, is more likely to produce a child who will grow up with fewer insecurities and hang ups. See above research. ‘My experiences of life’. Cheers
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Feb 18 8.16pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
And that sir, is complete and utter nonsense. Research is better than the completely unscientific ‘life experiences’ of a heterosexual male with a sample of 1. Or at least a sample of less than is scientifically credible. While we’re at it, let’s ban all research. Useless. You can’t rely on it. What a statement.
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Feb 18 8.19pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
See above research. ‘My experiences of life’. Cheers Sometimes you find what you want to find. I really hope the children in this situation are not adversely affected. I have found that the effects of upbringing only dawn on people when they are middle aged.
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Feb 18 8.25pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
And that sir, is complete and utter nonsense. Research is better than the completely unscientific ‘life experiences’ of a heterosexual male with a sample of 1. Or at least a sample of less than is scientifically credible. While we’re at it, let’s ban all research. Useless. You can’t rely on it. What a statement.
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Feb 18 8.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Sometimes you find what you want to find. I really hope the children in this situation are not adversely affected. I have found that the effects of upbringing only dawn on people when they are middle aged. No. Science is objective. Science loves to prove itself wrong. I try to be objective at all times. By all means interrogate the research. That’s great. That’s what I’d do in your position. Note again my search was in no way biased, so your point does not stand. If you can present me with an equal stream of research that counters my objectively obtained learnings, I’ll be forced to change my mind. Through evidence. I also share your hope, but I feel that I’m in a position to feel more optimistic that this will be the case from what I’ve read, so far. Not because of preconception or bias.
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Feb 18 8.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I’m not in a position to read every article in 5 minutes. I am in a position to make a qualified decision based on the overwhelming initial volume of different research that I’ve found that seems to be reaching the same conclusion. I’m not accepting it in totality, just making the case based on the constraints of this exchange, which I think is fair, and carries more weight than a hunch or opinion. I feel strongly about any issues that involve minorities, especially when people start to debate on emotive opinion rather than objective fact. Pretty simple really.
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Feb 18 8.32pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
No. Science is objective. Science loves to prove itself wrong. I try to be objective at all times. By all means interrogate the research. That’s great. That’s what I’d do in your position. Note again my search was in no way biased, so your point does not stand. If you can present me with an equal stream of research that counters my objectively obtained learnings, I’ll be forced to change my mind. Through evidence. I also share your hope, but I feel that I’m in a position to feel more optimistic that this will be the case from what I’ve read, so far. Not because of preconception or bias. All science is biased by the scientist. Believe it.
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 14 Feb 18 8.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I was mainly raised by a stepfather.....it isn't something I'd recommend personally but I'm sure there are good ones out there doing a great job. You had a bit of money involved in your raising while I had Norton house council estate (not your nor my fault)....there are undoubtedly factors involved in every upbringing which explain why A led to B happening. Genetic disposition, environment...which of course involves the family culture....which is the aspect we are debating. I think the 'traditional' family model is already hugely problematic, so alternatives should be encouraged, at least until we could definitively say it doesn't work - the point on family planning is a strong one to suggest the standard of parenting should be better in single sex families. In terms of when it goes wrong; I wouldn't consider the state implicated in faulty same-sex families any more than I would in a 'traditional' one - ie. Only really if there is a failure to act from the relevant social services, as we have seen previously, or something of that sort. As you elude to in your post, there are a hundred and one things which influence a child's upbringing - I haven't seen anything convincing that suggests same sex parents is consistently a harming factor in that process. I certainly don't consider the likelihood of a single sex family raising a bad egg to be any higher, which ultimately should be the deciding point. Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (14 Feb 2018 8.33pm)
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Stirlingsays 14 Feb 18 8.34pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I’d agree it’s hyperbolic, mainly because I couldn’t resist it on this occasion. But it’s certianly not nonsense. You have a prejudiced opinion, and you are making decision on ‘feel’ as you so put it, rather than fact. Unless you can put forward a credible piece of scientific research that states same sex parenting is bad for society and or children, you’re simply saying you don’t like anything that deviates from the standard model (whatever the hell that is), and by extension, gay couples. Ok, let me 'unpack' this....as you have a love of annoying trendy words. Your contention that my opinion is 'prejudiced' is subjective and there is nothing against me stating that your opinion is also 'prejudiced' towards believing these situations can cause no issues. My opinion isn't based on 'feel' as it's based upon thousands of years of human family structure. Your contention is based upon 'feel' as there are no studies with large enough sample sizes that have run for enough time that can make definite summaries without the smell of social constructionists with agenda behind them. Don't suggest that studies are available to prove anything on this. All you can point to are activists and activist organisations with opinions. Like I have said, when society decides to create its own form of families.....then...when it goes wrong society itself is implicated.....or more accurately social constructionists are. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Feb 2018 8.38pm)
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