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jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Oct 17 5.04pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Your perception of the past is biased like everybody else's. Judging of the past depends upon your value system. The confederate flag can represent different things to different people. You get black men flying that flag as well. Its a flag that literally represents an act of treason / Succession from the US - You can't really claim to be a patriot to the state and want succession from it. The two positions are polarised opposites. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 16 Oct 17 5.04pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Your perception of the past is biased like everybody else's. Judging of the past depends upon your value system.

The confederate flag can represent different things to different people. You get black men flying that flag as well.

Its a flag that literally represents an act of treason / Succession from the US - You can't really claim to be a patriot to the state and want succession from it.

The two positions are polarised opposites.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Oct 17 5.07pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I find it hilarious that people feel the need to display any flag......except maybe during the World Cup. That goes double for people who have moved to a country but still want to fly the flag of where they came from in the car window. Pretty much, especially when its just stuck up. If you're going to do it, get a flag pole, and keep it clean, and don't f**king stick it on your foreign made car.... "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 16 Oct 17 5.07pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I find it hilarious that people feel the need to display any flag......except maybe during the World Cup.
That goes double for people who have moved to a country but still want to fly the flag of where they came from in the car window.

Pretty much, especially when its just stuck up. If you're going to do it, get a flag pole, and keep it clean, and don't f**king stick it on your foreign made car....

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 16 Oct 17 5.13pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Its a flag that literally represents an act of treason / Succession from the US - You can't really claim to be a patriot to the state and want succession from it. The two positions are polarised opposites. If you only see the flag as a representation of the civil war sure. But this flag has been used by people in the south under different guises for decades. Are you saying the Dukes of Hazard was making a pro slavery point? Well, perhaps to you they were. If anyone is pro slavery they are idiots but symbols get appropriated because the aim is to maximise opposition to something.....it's unfortunate. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 Oct 17 5.13pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Its a flag that literally represents an act of treason / Succession from the US - You can't really claim to be a patriot to the state and want succession from it.

The two positions are polarised opposites.

If you only see the flag as a representation of the civil war sure. But this flag has been used by people in the south under different guises for decades. Are you saying the Dukes of Hazard was making a pro slavery point? Well, perhaps to you they were.

If anyone is pro slavery they are idiots but symbols get appropriated because the aim is to maximise opposition to something.....it's unfortunate.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 16 Oct 17 5.20pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Pretty much, especially when its just stuck up. If you're going to do it, get a flag pole, and keep it clean, and don't f**king stick it on your foreign made car.... What I find most perplexing about 'identity' is that there is a movement to encourage people to reduce gender differences and to move toward a neutral gender world, like somehow that is a good thing but at the same time we encourage people to cling on to divisive nonsense like religion and 'culture' which is far more of a problem for harmony, but is considered a 'human right'. That said, flying the Confederate flag is related to 'culture' and yet that is frowned upon, while celebrating 'Blackness' is encouraged. We have double standards, mixed messages and agenda driven propaganda. None of it makes sense.
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Hrolf The Ganger

16 Oct 17 5.20pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Pretty much, especially when its just stuck up. If you're going to do it, get a flag pole, and keep it clean, and don't f**king stick it on your foreign made car....

What I find most perplexing about 'identity' is that there is a movement to encourage people to reduce gender differences and to move toward a neutral gender world, like somehow that is a good thing but at the same time we encourage people to cling on to divisive nonsense like religion and 'culture' which is far more of a problem for harmony, but is considered a 'human right'.
That said, flying the Confederate flag is related to 'culture' and yet that is frowned upon, while celebrating 'Blackness' is encouraged.

We have double standards, mixed messages and agenda driven propaganda. None of it makes sense.

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Oct 17 5.59pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If you only see the flag as a representation of the civil war sure. But this flag has been used by people in the south under different guises for decades. Are you saying the Dukes of Hazard was making a pro slavery point? Well, perhaps to you they were. If anyone is pro slavery they are idiots but symbols get appropriated because the aim is to maximise opposition to something.....it's unfortunate. The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war. The US had/has a flag, the south seceded and created a new flag - the confederate flag - to represent itself. It is a powerful symbol in the south because it represents that time when the south rose up against what they perceived as oppression from the north. But it was then and is now a symbol of the fight to maintain slavery over the rule of law that had abolished it. That's all it is. The Dukes of Hazard show wasn't making a political statement; Hollywood was using the flag - and the fact that the car itself was called the "General Lee" - as stereotypes of southerners. It's not like the show was trying to be subtle about lampooning southerners. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Oct 17 5.59pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If anyone is pro slavery they are idiots but symbols get appropriated because the aim is to maximise opposition to something.....it's unfortunate.

The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war. The US had/has a flag, the south seceded and created a new flag - the confederate flag - to represent itself. It is a powerful symbol in the south because it represents that time when the south rose up against what they perceived as oppression from the north. But it was then and is now a symbol of the fight to maintain slavery over the rule of law that had abolished it. That's all it is.

The Dukes of Hazard show wasn't making a political statement; Hollywood was using the flag - and the fact that the car itself was called the "General Lee" - as stereotypes of southerners. It's not like the show was trying to be subtle about lampooning southerners.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 16 Oct 17 6.00pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war. The US had/has a flag, the south seceded and created a new flag - the confederate flag - to represent itself. It is a powerful symbol in the south because it represents that time when the south rose up against what they perceived as oppression from the north. But it was then and is now a symbol of the fight to maintain slavery over the rule of law that had abolished it. That's all it is. The Dukes of Hazard show wasn't making a political statement; Hollywood was using the flag - and the fact that the car itself was called the "General Lee" - as stereotypes of southerners. It's not like the show was trying to be subtle about lampooning southerners. No it's not. If it was literally a symbol of the civil war, it would be flag representing all sides in the war. It was the flag of the breakaway Southern States. Edited by hedgehog50 (16 Oct 2017 6.02pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 16 Oct 17 6.00pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war. The US had/has a flag, the south seceded and created a new flag - the confederate flag - to represent itself. It is a powerful symbol in the south because it represents that time when the south rose up against what they perceived as oppression from the north. But it was then and is now a symbol of the fight to maintain slavery over the rule of law that had abolished it. That's all it is.

No it's not. If it was literally a symbol of the civil war, it would be flag representing all sides in the war. It was the flag of the breakaway Southern States.

Edited by hedgehog50 (16 Oct 2017 6.02pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 16 Oct 17 6.53pm
Originally posted by elgrande You are just a bit of a bully aint ya ray,just like most of the rest on the left...fascist by any other name,agree with me or you are wrong,there is a few of them as well as you. Waddaloadabloodyrubbish.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 16 Oct 17 6.53pm

Originally posted by elgrande

You are just a bit of a bully aint ya ray,just like most of the rest on the left...fascist by any other name,agree with me or you are wrong,there is a few of them as well as you.

Waddaloadabloodyrubbish.

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Stirlingsays 16 Oct 17 6.54pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war. The US had/has a flag, the south seceded and created a new flag - the confederate flag - to represent itself. It is a powerful symbol in the south because it represents that time when the south rose up against what they perceived as oppression from the north. But it was then and is now a symbol of the fight to maintain slavery over the rule of law that had abolished it. That's all it is. The Dukes of Hazard show wasn't making a political statement; Hollywood was using the flag - and the fact that the car itself was called the "General Lee" - as stereotypes of southerners. It's not like the show was trying to be subtle about lampooning southerners. The confederates had several flags in reality. This was the best looking and now you have it. If the flag only meant what you say then it simply wouldn't have been used as you suggest in shows like 'Hazard'. As for lampooning southerners.....well to an extent, the show had comedy but southerners were also shown as heros....heros with that flag and car. Elvis sang Dixie Land with black singers with lines from confederate marching war songs. Attitudes towards these areas are different to different people...Elvis was no racist..... people who had these attitudes in the past are probably no different to people who hold them now. Sure, you also have those of malign intent. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 Oct 17 6.54pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

The confederates had several flags in reality. This was the best looking and now you have it.

If the flag only meant what you say then it simply wouldn't have been used as you suggest in shows like 'Hazard'. As for lampooning southerners.....well to an extent, the show had comedy but southerners were also shown as heros....heros with that flag and car.

Elvis sang Dixie Land with black singers with lines from confederate marching war songs.

Attitudes towards these areas are different to different people...Elvis was no racist..... people who had these attitudes in the past are probably no different to people who hold them now.

Sure, you also have those of malign intent.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Oct 17 7.57pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 No it's not. If it was literally a symbol of the civil war, it would be flag representing all sides in the war. It was the flag of the breakaway Southern States. Which is the point I made in the second sentence of the post you quoted. So, cool. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Oct 17 7.57pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

No it's not. If it was literally a symbol of the civil war, it would be flag representing all sides in the war. It was the flag of the breakaway Southern States.

Which is the point I made in the second sentence of the post you quoted. So, cool.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Oct 17 8.09pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The confederates had several flags in reality. This was the best looking and now you have it. If the flag only meant what you say then it simply wouldn't have been used as you suggest in shows like 'Hazard'. As for lampooning southerners.....well to an extent, the show had comedy but southerners were also shown as heros....heros with that flag and car. Elvis sang Dixie Land with black singers with lines from confederate marching war songs. Attitudes towards these areas are different to different people...Elvis was no racist..... people who had these attitudes in the past are probably no different to people who hold them now. Sure, you also have those of malign intent. Why do you continue to attest to the feelings of people you cannot have met? "Elvis was no racist" and "women in the 1950s were happier". I am not suggesting Elvis was a racist, but because he performed with black singers doesn't mean anything; Mel Gibson worked in a Jewish-dominated Hollywood and made a bunch of "Lethal Weapon" movies with Danny Glover, yet I think we all (now) know where he stands on race and Jews in particular. Just because the heroes of "Dukes of Hazard" were also rebel flag toting rednecks does not mean that the shows producers were trying to do anything other than make a successful show based in whereverthef* Hazard County was. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just waing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Oct 17 8.09pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The confederates had several flags in reality. This was the best looking and now you have it.

Elvis sang Dixie Land with black singers with lines from confederate marching war songs.

Attitudes towards these areas are different to different people...Elvis was no racist..... people who had these attitudes in the past are probably no different to people who hold them now.

Sure, you also have those of malign intent.

Why do you continue to attest to the feelings of people you cannot have met? "Elvis was no racist" and "women in the 1950s were happier". I am not suggesting Elvis was a racist, but because he performed with black singers doesn't mean anything; Mel Gibson worked in a Jewish-dominated Hollywood and made a bunch of "Lethal Weapon" movies with Danny Glover, yet I think we all (now) know where he stands on race and Jews in particular.

Just because the heroes of "Dukes of Hazard" were also rebel flag toting rednecks does not mean that the shows producers were trying to do anything other than make a successful show based in whereverthef*** Hazard County was.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 16 Oct 17 8.20pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Why do you continue to attest to the feelings of people you cannot have met? "Elvis was no racist" and "women in the 1950s were happier". I am not suggesting Elvis was a racist, but because he performed with black singers doesn't mean anything; Mel Gibson worked in a Jewish-dominated Hollywood and made a bunch of "Lethal Weapon" movies with Danny Glover, yet I think we all (now) know where he stands on race and Jews in particular. Just because the heroes of "Dukes of Hazard" were also rebel flag toting rednecks does not mean that the shows producers were trying to do anything other than make a successful show based in whereverthef*** Hazard County was. Well, I'd say working with black singers does say something actually. Also, recording 'if I can dream'. But I think I'd agreed that many people are complex and are not just some easy entity that people can pin descriptions on easily....then's there the time period and its cultural attitudes and so on.....But did Elvis do or say anything particularly bad? I think it's fair to say Gibson holds anti semitic attitudes. Though to be fair to him he's apologised a lot.....but I've heard Gibson on tape to a girlfriend and he's pretty fecked up. Amazing director....pretty fecked up....he said, 'I am a public figure, I should be an example and inspiration and I am an arsehole.' “I am 56. I should know better. So to them, my fans, I say I extend my apology and my love and best wishes to my fan base.' But yeah....that tape to that girlfriend.....that's some weird catholic 'angel or slut' violent attitudes on women. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Oct 2017 8.22pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 Oct 17 8.20pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Well, I'd say working with black singers does say something actually. Also, recording 'if I can dream'. But I think I'd agreed that many people are complex and are not just some easy entity that people can pin descriptions on easily....then's there the time period and its cultural attitudes and so on.....But did Elvis do or say anything particularly bad?

I think it's fair to say Gibson holds anti semitic attitudes. Though to be fair to him he's apologised a lot.....but I've heard Gibson on tape to a girlfriend and he's pretty fecked up.

Amazing director....pretty fecked up....he said, 'I am a public figure, I should be an example and inspiration and I am an arsehole.'

“I am 56. I should know better. So to them, my fans, I say I extend my apology and my love and best wishes to my fan base.'

But yeah....that tape to that girlfriend.....that's some weird catholic 'angel or slut' violent attitudes on women.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Oct 2017 8.22pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 16 Oct 17 8.22pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Which is the point I made in the second sentence of the post you quoted. So, cool. So you literally don't know the meaning of the word 'literally'. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 16 Oct 17 8.22pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Which is the point I made in the second sentence of the post you quoted. So, cool.

So you literally don't know the meaning of the word 'literally'.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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