Originally posted by Kermit8

It is yes. And surely anyone with a rational brain from either side can see all in not well and the situation is pretty negative so not a question of 'told you so' more a wake up call for those who might be able to help steer the ship into calmer waters and take over the wheel from the lunatic foaming Brexiteer right wingers.

Originally posted by snytaxx

No I dont think the situation really is that negative however i'm not surprised at this narrative you are pushing, here's why.

The referendum was very much the remain camp's result 'to lose'. It should of fought a campaign about the reasons why the EU is so totally wonderful, aspects of the campaign did that. i.e. Nicola Sturge huhnon and Will Straw however many in the campaign just tried using negative campaigning such as fear mongering and smear politics to try and win. e.g. Cameron, Osbourne, Blair, Obama, Eagle etc.

Surprisingly to many of the aforementioned (yet not to me) the electorate rejected not just the EU, but the whole climate / tone of the debate and we had a leave victory with a million votes to spare.

The problem was, except a crash in the pound (which has both advantaged and disadvantaged our country), almost nothing the remain campaign said would happen, has actually happened. I.e. Where are the 500,000 redundancies which were supposed to come about the moment the decision was made to leave? Where is the emergency budget? Where is the peace in Europe threatened? Where is the Recession? Have Scotland and NI broken away from the UK? The way I see it, the electorate called the remain campaigns bluff and many politicians and remain supporters have lost ALOT of face over it.

This is the part which really saddens me, some in the remain campaign have simply said "I dont agree with the direction we are headed, but unity and democracy are more important, we respect the decision, "to leave" while others, have either directly or implicitly put their own reputations ahead of what the country needs (unity) and have pushed this narrative that 'the wheels are coming off' even though it isnt true, effectively a double or nothing approach. Sadly, when i read your posts I genuinely get the impression that you'd rather the whole country 'self destruct' so you can stand proudly on top of the piled up ruins of UK society and proclaim "I TOLD YOU SO" rather than the UK actually leave the EU and you know... try and make a good go of it.

Now before you rage back at me i'm certain that is not the case and that you would like to see the UK thrive after brexit, but it rather encompasses my point. We have words such as 'extreme, cliff edge, self destruct, hard, dangerous' (normally followed by 'brexit') banded around like candy at a kids party, however very little explanation as to why you use these words and what exactly has happened to merit use these words? Sure, i'm certain if you google hard enough you can find some member of Goldman Sachs saying "i'm moving to Paris" or a Japanese bank instead considering Frankfurt as its European HQ instead of London. However minor gains and losses don't equate to 'driving off a cliff edge' it's just a narrative your side needs to keep pushing because coming to terms with the fact that your campaign was wrong is just too painful to bear.

Originally posted by Kermit8

This is the kind of ill-judged arrogance that if replicated by our negotiating team will see Brexit being destructive and long term at that for the UK.

Originally posted by Dave58

Many of the people who wanted to remain, did not vote. Sadly especially young people who think politics isn't cool. Well they woke up and voted in the general election.
There is no doubt there will be numerous attempts in the coming years to overturn the vote.
Many see us middle aged and older folk as bigots and racists. Easy words to use aren't they? I'm just so proud of this country and hate to see it ruined.
We voted to get out of Europe. We should not pay a penny in a so called divorce bill. Europe is only held together by Germany and France. They have always called the shots.
There is a bigger world out there that wants to trade with us. Trade deals with china, India and the USA would dwarf any trade deal with Europe. The EU is scared. German car makers, French farmers and wine makers need us. They are scared if we come out well from the talks, that other countries will see it as an opportunity to leave.
David Davies is talking tough and they don't like it. They want to punish the uk.
We don't need you EU. You need us.

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

So the EU can be arrogant and we can't......Usual oh so patriotic stuff from you.

We will see who blinks. We will have a free trade deal and people like you with your portents of doom about 'arrogance' are just talking beta male fear mongering nonsense.

Originally posted by Henry of Peckham
You are right. It is a shambles, but should be a great success story if our leaders had any sort of clue.
The damage was done before anyone voted.
Remain leaders gave us the choice, and had millions of booklets printed at taxpayers' expense telling us in strident terms why we should stay.
The political morons (Cameron, Gideon) were bitterly opposed to Brexit themselves, and so determined arrogant and sure that the electorate would vote 'Remain' that they didn't have a plan for Brexit. The civil service should have been working on all policy options and departments organised before the vote. The government should have been ready to start immediately. That was gross dereliction by Cameron, and appears to be why the May government, and it really wouldn't matter which party it is, has been slow to start the process, and appears to be disorganised.
But then we Brexit voters are supposed to be the thick ones. Ho hum.
At least we've got the football to er....

We're a laughing stock because we were led into something by political morons with no plan B. Fifteen months later we still don't have a plan A. I suspect we won't have a clue even in five years! Shambolic ... and it's very sad watching our country self destruct.