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Russ62a Flag Redhill, sometimes 21 Aug 17 6.33pm Send a Private Message to Russ62a Add Russ62a as a friend

Originally posted by hastingseagle67

Said he can't understand how some teams are spending within the confines of FFP. Wondering if since Platini has gone, certain teams have decided to simply ignore the rules. Henry Winter suggested it might all come out eventually.

Something certainly doesn't add up for me with the FFP arguement being put forward by our club. Been in the "big league" all this time and only spent 8m this window. I know it's about wages too but others seem to be doing it just fine

 

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ThatPetrolRelation Flag Ottawa 21 Aug 17 7.41pm Send a Private Message to ThatPetrolRelation Add ThatPetrolRelation as a friend

Originally posted by Russ62a

Something certainly doesn't add up for me with the FFP arguement being put forward by our club. Been in the "big league" all this time and only spent 8m this window. I know it's about wages too but others seem to be doing it just fine

It looks like we had a net spend of £41,500,000 last season (some people seem to think we were break even). On BBC Talksport, SP made it sound like the owners were talking about kicking more money in to make some buys, we just don't have the revenue or budget of the big boys.

We are about 8th, net in terms of spend, and we sure aren't 8th in revenue. So no wonder we have to tap the brakes.

[Link]

Our 5-year average spend is £21, and we certainly blew through that last year. Some of the mid-table teams that have spent big are ones that had some big sales (like Everton with £75M for Lukaku). Burnley and Swans have each over £40M in sales, so you assume they will be buying big soon.

We've only really sold Bolasie for big money. And I'm glad we've kept Zaha despite interest. I figure FDB is working with a £20-30M Budget, with anything higher needing new investment from the owners. The only market seems to be for Cabaye and Townsend, and I'd rather lose Cabaye if someone will pay £10M for a player who will be 32 in January, so I'm doubtful.
Selling Townsend to buy Burke would be a big risk and still leave us with little depth.

And that's not even touching the ever-increasing wage expectations.

Hard to do this mid-table business!

 

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Mr Palaceman Flag 21 Aug 17 7.55pm Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Originally posted by ThatPetrolRelation

It looks like we had a net spend of £41,500,000 last season (some people seem to think we were break even). On BBC Talksport, SP made it sound like the owners were talking about kicking more money in to make some buys, we just don't have the revenue or budget of the big boys.

We are about 8th, net in terms of spend, and we sure aren't 8th in revenue. So no wonder we have to tap the brakes.

[Link]

Our 5-year average spend is £21, and we certainly blew through that last year. Some of the mid-table teams that have spent big are ones that had some big sales (like Everton with £75M for Lukaku). Burnley and Swans have each over £40M in sales, so you assume they will be buying big soon.

We've only really sold Bolasie for big money. And I'm glad we've kept Zaha despite interest. I figure FDB is working with a £20-30M Budget, with anything higher needing new investment from the owners. The only market seems to be for Cabaye and Townsend, and I'd rather lose Cabaye if someone will pay £10M for a player who will be 32 in January, so I'm doubtful.
Selling Townsend to buy Burke would be a big risk and still leave us with little depth.

And that's not even touching the ever-increasing wage expectations.

Hard to do this mid-table business!

Good post..

Although, I think I would sell Townsend to get another player in. I like Townsend and think on his day he is class but he has never really settled here, imo and is inconsistant at times. I understand that he's on big money also. Cabaye is also class but injuries and fitness are an issue I think. I love him but it reminds me of the Ambrose situation. He was called a luxury player.

 


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Tommyp151211 Flag 21 Aug 17 8.09pm Send a Private Message to Tommyp151211 Add Tommyp151211 as a friend

Funny how Parish never mentioned the SD appointment isn't it ...

 

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Russ62a Flag Redhill, sometimes 21 Aug 17 8.34pm Send a Private Message to Russ62a Add Russ62a as a friend

Originally posted by ThatPetrolRelation

It looks like we had a net spend of £41,500,000 last season (some people seem to think we were break even). On BBC Talksport, SP made it sound like the owners were talking about kicking more money in to make some buys, we just don't have the revenue or budget of the big boys.

We are about 8th, net in terms of spend, and we sure aren't 8th in revenue. So no wonder we have to tap the brakes.

[Link]

Our 5-year average spend is £21, and we certainly blew through that last year. Some of the mid-table teams that have spent big are ones that had some big sales (like Everton with £75M for Lukaku). Burnley and Swans have each over £40M in sales, so you assume they will be buying big soon.

We've only really sold Bolasie for big money. And I'm glad we've kept Zaha despite interest. I figure FDB is working with a £20-30M Budget, with anything higher needing new investment from the owners. The only market seems to be for Cabaye and Townsend, and I'd rather lose Cabaye if someone will pay £10M for a player who will be 32 in January, so I'm doubtful.
Selling Townsend to buy Burke would be a big risk and still leave us with little depth.

And that's not even touching the ever-increasing wage expectations.

Hard to do this mid-table business!

Good reply but something I still don't get - surely if FFP is about turnover, then more money from shareholders doesn't help if we are up against the buffers on the turnover side of the equation. Unless we can get a shareholder to sponsor the stadium, academy or ladies team for a fortune maybe!

 

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NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 21 Aug 17 8.40pm Send a Private Message to NickinOX Add NickinOX as a friend

Originally posted by Russ62a

Good reply but something I still don't get - surely if FFP is about turnover, then more money from shareholders doesn't help if we are up against the buffers on the turnover side of the equation. Unless we can get a shareholder to sponsor the stadium, academy or ladies team for a fortune maybe!

They are allowed to put money into the club (I don't get all the actual details, but it requires them writing off the extra cash somehow), otherwise the club can only increase spending by a set amount plus non tv revenue. As such, the increase in tv money people go on about does not make a huge difference in terms of where we sit re the cap. The Guardian, I think it was, had a very good explanation of the whole thing last year.

 


If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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ThatPetrolRelation Flag Ottawa 21 Aug 17 9.55pm Send a Private Message to ThatPetrolRelation Add ThatPetrolRelation as a friend

Yeah, basically there is a spending cap per team determined by the share of TV money and prize money. Then on top, teams can also spend their other money (sponsorship, money from games days, shirt sales etc). It's been a while since I looked at numbers, but a few years ago Palace had around £20M in other revenue, and other more established mid-table teams had about £40M (this was Everton, Hammers, Villa and Newcastle --so that tells you something right there.)

FPP works on a 3-year average, so if you overspend one year (think January) you need to re-balance the books, or face fines (like Bournemouth), or FIFA penalties.

The big difference is around selling and buying a player. When you sell a player --say we sold Townsend for £15M-- you book that total revenue for that year. When you buy a player, you spread the cost over the contact (say 5 years.) So if we then bought John Doe for the same price, we would actually only book a cost of £3M per year over 5 years. So it's the amortized cost over 5 years that would show in the books. So it comes down to accounting, but money from player sales gives you much more flexibility.

Then there is balancing the on-paper sales with the actual cash needed to buy a player. So if Palace wants to exceed the transfer budget to buy a player, they have to have all the money at hand. Say to pay Pool £20M for Sakho --they need to cut the cheque and transfer the money. If Palace don't want to go all QPR, and avoid debt problems, then they have to inject more cash into the team to cover the shortfall in the budget.

Anyway, long answer to a short question, but there was a good summary of Palace done at Swiss Ramble last year, which covers the financials well without required an accountant's degree:
[Link]

 

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TheExpatEagle Flag 21 Aug 17 11.58pm Send a Private Message to TheExpatEagle Add TheExpatEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Nobbybm

That is not what he actually said and is way out of context. To sum up, he said three incoming in an ideal world if we can financially manage it but some may have to go to make room & make it happen. He also mentioned players "you are not going to be using" inferring that a big part of the outgoing situation is to free up wages - it developed into the wider FFP conversation.

If you listen to the whole show & join up the Palace bits it's far more positive than a couple of partial quotes.

It's here: [Link]

I already that that this morning and put the audio on my podcast account. It isn't positive in my opinion.

 

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TheExpatEagle Flag 22 Aug 17 12.00am Send a Private Message to TheExpatEagle Add TheExpatEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Russ62a

Something certainly doesn't add up for me with the FFP arguement being put forward by our club. Been in the "big league" all this time and only spent 8m this window. I know it's about wages too but others seem to be doing it just fine

People seem to forget we spend £25m of the summer budget back in January.

Back then we made £30m of signings and up to £5m in loan fees.

 

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Tommyp151211 Flag 22 Aug 17 12.46am Send a Private Message to Tommyp151211 Add Tommyp151211 as a friend

^^
Too many 'fans' playing FIFA or Football Manager.

That's the problem.

 

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NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 22 Aug 17 12.54am Send a Private Message to NickinOX Add NickinOX as a friend

Originally posted by ThatPetrolRelation

Yeah, basically there is a spending cap per team determined by the share of TV money and prize money. Then on top, teams can also spend their other money (sponsorship, money from games days, shirt sales etc). It's been a while since I looked at numbers, but a few years ago Palace had around £20M in other revenue, and other more established mid-table teams had about £40M (this was Everton, Hammers, Villa and Newcastle --so that tells you something right there.)

FPP works on a 3-year average, so if you overspend one year (think January) you need to re-balance the books, or face fines (like Bournemouth), or FIFA penalties.

The big difference is around selling and buying a player. When you sell a player --say we sold Townsend for £15M-- you book that total revenue for that year. When you buy a player, you spread the cost over the contact (say 5 years.) So if we then bought John Doe for the same price, we would actually only book a cost of £3M per year over 5 years. So it's the amortized cost over 5 years that would show in the books. So it comes down to accounting, but money from player sales gives you much more flexibility.

Then there is balancing the on-paper sales with the actual cash needed to buy a player. So if Palace wants to exceed the transfer budget to buy a player, they have to have all the money at hand. Say to pay Pool £20M for Sakho --they need to cut the cheque and transfer the money. If Palace don't want to go all QPR, and avoid debt problems, then they have to inject more cash into the team to cover the shortfall in the budget.

Anyway, long answer to a short question, but there was a good summary of Palace done at Swiss Ramble last year, which covers the financials well without required an accountant's degree:
[Link]


Thanks for posting that.

 


If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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majorkaios Flag Trowbridge, Wilts 22 Aug 17 1.29am Send a Private Message to majorkaios Add majorkaios as a friend

Originally posted by ThatPetrolRelation

Yeah, basically there is a spending cap per team determined by the share of TV money and prize money. Then on top, teams can also spend their other money (sponsorship, money from games days, shirt sales etc). It's been a while since I looked at numbers, but a few years ago Palace had around £20M in other revenue, and other more established mid-table teams had about £40M (this was Everton, Hammers, Villa and Newcastle --so that tells you something right there.)

FPP works on a 3-year average, so if you overspend one year (think January) you need to re-balance the books, or face fines (like Bournemouth), or FIFA penalties.

The big difference is around selling and buying a player. When you sell a player --say we sold Townsend for £15M-- you book that total revenue for that year. When you buy a player, you spread the cost over the contact (say 5 years.) So if we then bought John Doe for the same price, we would actually only book a cost of £3M per year over 5 years. So it's the amortized cost over 5 years that would show in the books. So it comes down to accounting, but money from player sales gives you much more flexibility.

Then there is balancing the on-paper sales with the actual cash needed to buy a player. So if Palace wants to exceed the transfer budget to buy a player, they have to have all the money at hand. Say to pay Pool £20M for Sakho --they need to cut the cheque and transfer the money. If Palace don't want to go all QPR, and avoid debt problems, then they have to inject more cash into the team to cover the shortfall in the budget.

Anyway, long answer to a short question, but there was a good summary of Palace done at Swiss Ramble last year, which covers the financials well without required an accountant's degree:
[Link]


thanks for the info, that was a great help.

So as a guess We probably have less than 20-25M in cash terms on hand to play with. Plus whaterver we can add with sales ?


Edited by majorkaios (22 Aug 2017 1.36am)

 


School, SN.Juniors, SN High, Selhurst. 1st match 1972 CP 2 N. Utd 1. Thank you, John Jackson and Vince Hilair for brightening our darkest days. I moved to the west country in 1983. Always Proud and 'Glad All Over' to be a Palace Fan. ))

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