England's growing mega farms...

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sitdownstandup 19 Jul 17 10.03pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 At what point in the hierarchy of living organisms do you regard the killing of them murder? "What's in a name? a rose a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Call it killing or call it murder - animals are being killed at a rate of over 60 billion land animals a year and that is not including the fish in our oceans that are being killed. We can find a way to feed all those farmed animals but we can't feed the 7 billion people who live in the world. Something isn't right and obviously when we're seeing adverts from Mcdonald's showing how well treated their animals are and how they are working hard to help the environment and their workers they are covering up a lot of the activities that they are involved in. Edited by sitdownstandup (19 Jul 2017 10.05pm) Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping. Hubert Reeves
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sitdownstandup

19 Jul 17 10.03pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

At what point in the hierarchy of living organisms do you regard the killing of them murder?

"What's in a name? a rose a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

Call it killing or call it murder - animals are being killed at a rate of over 60 billion land animals a year and that is not including the fish in our oceans that are being killed. We can find a way to feed all those farmed animals but we can't feed the 7 billion people who live in the world. Something isn't right and obviously when we're seeing adverts from Mcdonald's showing how well treated their animals are and how they are working hard to help the environment and their workers they are covering up a lot of the activities that they are involved in.

Edited by sitdownstandup (19 Jul 2017 10.05pm)

Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping.

Hubert Reeves

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hedgehog50 Croydon 19 Jul 17 10.06pm
Originally posted by sitdownstandup "What's in a name? a rose a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Call it killing or call it murder - animals are being killed at a rate of over 60 billion land animals a year and that is not including the fish in our oceans that are being killed. We can find a way to feed all those farmed animals but we can't feed the 7 billion people who live in the world. Something isn't right and obviously when we're seeing adverts from Mcdonald's showing how well treated their animals are and how they are working hard to help the environment and their workers they are covering up a lot of the activities that they are involved in. Edited by sitdownstandup (19 Jul 2017 10.05pm) What about my question? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 19 Jul 17 10.06pm

Originally posted by sitdownstandup

"What's in a name? a rose a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

Edited by sitdownstandup (19 Jul 2017 10.05pm)

What about my question?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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sitdownstandup 19 Jul 17 10.08pm
Originally posted by serial thriller This is a guy who pushed people to eat more mackerel as cod was running out, then when everyone switched to mackerel and it became endangered, put out a cook book all about fish. Ultimately, if everyone wants to keep eating meat and fish at the levels we do, rejecting intensive farming ain't an option. Either it becomes incredibly expensive, or we use up the vast majority of land mass in the world to produce our meat. Already over a quarter of land on the planet is used for livestock purposes. In st world countries, we now have a fairly simple decision to make. DO we want our food to involve mass murder and suffering, contribute enough greenhouse gases on its own to reach the 2 degree threshold of global warming, and contribute to adverse health issues which scientists currently can't keep up with, because livestock farming is developing so rapidly. Or do we make a fairly easy switch to eating food which increasingly tastes the same, costs less, is less harmful for us and the environment, and isn't predicated on killing an innocent living being. A mass conversion to vege/veganism would counteract what Trump is doing with pulling out of the Paris agreement. People who are defeatist about tackling climate change need to realise this. A great post that rings with truth... the politicians haven't got the power, it's the people that do. They just need to exercise it correctly. Well said serial. Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping. Hubert Reeves
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sitdownstandup

19 Jul 17 10.08pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

This is a guy who pushed people to eat more mackerel as cod was running out, then when everyone switched to mackerel and it became endangered, put out a cook book all about fish.

Ultimately, if everyone wants to keep eating meat and fish at the levels we do, rejecting intensive farming ain't an option. Either it becomes incredibly expensive, or we use up the vast majority of land mass in the world to produce our meat. Already over a quarter of land on the planet is used for livestock purposes.

In st world countries, we now have a fairly simple decision to make. DO we want our food to involve mass murder and suffering, contribute enough greenhouse gases on its own to reach the 2 degree threshold of global warming, and contribute to adverse health issues which scientists currently can't keep up with, because livestock farming is developing so rapidly. Or do we make a fairly easy switch to eating food which increasingly tastes the same, costs less, is less harmful for us and the environment, and isn't predicated on killing an innocent living being.

A mass conversion to vege/veganism would counteract what Trump is doing with pulling out of the Paris agreement. People who are defeatist about tackling climate change need to realise this.

A great post that rings with truth... the politicians haven't got the power, it's the people that do. They just need to exercise it correctly. Well said serial.

Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping.

Hubert Reeves

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sitdownstandup 19 Jul 17 10.14pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 What about my question? I think that you should live a life that, as practicable as can be, causes as little harm as possible to animals. Here's the definition of veganism... 'Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.' yeah so that's the vegan life for most vegans I suppose... Edited by sitdownstandup (19 Jul 2017 10.25pm) Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping. Hubert Reeves
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sitdownstandup

19 Jul 17 10.14pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What about my question?

I think that you should live a life that, as practicable as can be, causes as little harm as possible to animals.

Here's the definition of veganism...
'Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.'
yeah so that's the vegan life for most vegans I suppose...

Edited by sitdownstandup (19 Jul 2017 10.25pm)

Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping.

Hubert Reeves

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davenotamonkey 19 Jul 17 11.59pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Some meat is most definitely heinous murder considering what the poor things have to go through. Death camps basically. Any new trade deal with the US including importation of meat will only lower the standards as they are even less rigorous with animal welfare. Plus, it will put some of our farmers out of business with the cheapness of their products. Hoo-rah for Brexit Edited by Kermit8 (18 Jul 2017 8.24am) [Link] This regulation (yup, the EU type that gets transposed directly into law, without the Commons even getting a vote on it - it just becomes law) defined the (ahem) "competence" that permitted horsemeat to enter the UK food market, passed off as beef. Under your beloved single market, EU rules stipulate that produce from an EU member that "conforms with EU requirements" cannot be checked at the entry port. Let's hope that changes going forward. Hoo-rah for Brexit.
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davenotamonkey

19 Jul 17 11.59pm

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Originally posted by Kermit8

Some meat is most definitely heinous murder considering what the poor things have to go through. Death camps basically.

Any new trade deal with the US including importation of meat will only lower the standards as they are even less rigorous with animal welfare. Plus, it will put some of our farmers out of business with the cheapness of their products.

Hoo-rah for Brexit

Edited by Kermit8 (18 Jul 2017 8.24am)

[Link]

This regulation (yup, the EU type that gets transposed directly into law, without the Commons even getting a vote on it - it just becomes law) defined the (ahem) "competence" that permitted horsemeat to enter the UK food market, passed off as beef.

Under your beloved single market, EU rules stipulate that produce from an EU member that "conforms with EU requirements" cannot be checked at the entry port. Let's hope that changes going forward.

Hoo-rah for Brexit.

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sitdownstandup 20 Jul 17 2.12am
Originally posted by Kermit8 Some meat is most definitely heinous murder considering what the poor things have to go through. Death camps basically. Any new trade deal with the US including importation of meat will only lower the standards as they are even less rigorous with animal welfare. Plus, it will put some of our farmers out of business with the cheapness of their products. Hoo-rah for Brexit Edited by Kermit8 (18 Jul 2017 8.24am) The way in which animals are treated at the moment is a travesty of justice in every sense and the reason they are treated so badly is because they have no rights. We, as a society allow it to happen. We buy products from businesses in the hope rather than the knowledge that the animals have been treated well. The truth is that for 95% of animals they are treated appallingly. This is why vegetarianism/ veganism/ is growing at an exponential rate. People don't agree with the treatment of animals, they are worried about their health and the effects of eating meat and more people are becoming aware of the correlation between eating meat and global warming. These industries don't care about animals, they don't are about the planet and they don't care about people's health. They only care about profit. If they can save money by building smaller cages for animals or pumping them full of more drugs to make them grow faster or feed them cheaper unnatural food that is not appropriate for them they will. We should be doing whatever we can to stop businesses like this existing because as long as they are allowed to exploit and murder animals at the rate that they do they will do the same to the planet and its people if it means they can make money from it. The sooner we live in a world where all are treated with compassion, and kindness is put ahead of profit the better it will be for everyone. Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping. Hubert Reeves
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sitdownstandup

20 Jul 17 2.12am

Originally posted by Kermit8

Some meat is most definitely heinous murder considering what the poor things have to go through. Death camps basically.

Hoo-rah for Brexit

Edited by Kermit8 (18 Jul 2017 8.24am)

The way in which animals are treated at the moment is a travesty of justice in every sense and the reason they are treated so badly is because they have no rights. We, as a society allow it to happen. We buy products from businesses in the hope rather than the knowledge that the animals have been treated well. The truth is that for 95% of animals they are treated appallingly. This is why vegetarianism/ veganism/ is growing at an exponential rate. People don't agree with the treatment of animals, they are worried about their health and the effects of eating meat and more people are becoming aware of the correlation between eating meat and global warming. These industries don't care about animals, they don't are about the planet and they don't care about people's health. They only care about profit. If they can save money by building smaller cages for animals or pumping them full of more drugs to make them grow faster or feed them cheaper unnatural food that is not appropriate for them they will. We should be doing whatever we can to stop businesses like this existing because as long as they are allowed to exploit and murder animals at the rate that they do they will do the same to the planet and its people if it means they can make money from it. The sooner we live in a world where all are treated with compassion, and kindness is put ahead of profit the better it will be for everyone.

Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping.

Hubert Reeves

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hedgehog50 Croydon 20 Jul 17 7.46am
Originally posted by sitdownstandup I think that you should live a life that, as practicable as can be, causes as little harm as possible to animals. Here's the definition of veganism... 'Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.' yeah so that's the vegan life for most vegans I suppose... Edited by sitdownstandup (19 Jul 2017 10.25pm) I don't know whether you are being thick or just not answering, but the question was, "At what point in the hierarchy of living organisms do you regard the killing of them murder?" We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 20 Jul 17 7.46am

Originally posted by sitdownstandup

I think that you should live a life that, as practicable as can be, causes as little harm as possible to animals.

Edited by sitdownstandup (19 Jul 2017 10.25pm)

I don't know whether you are being thick or just not answering, but the question was, "At what point in the hierarchy of living organisms do you regard the killing of them murder?"

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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sitdownstandup 20 Jul 17 8.02pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 I don't know whether you are being thick or just not answering, but the question was, "At what point in the hierarchy of living organisms do you regard the killing of them murder?" If I can live a life that causes as little harm to animals and insects thats an ideal life for me. Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping. Hubert Reeves
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sitdownstandup

20 Jul 17 8.02pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I don't know whether you are being thick or just not answering, but the question was, "At what point in the hierarchy of living organisms do you regard the killing of them murder?"

If I can live a life that causes as little harm to animals and insects thats an ideal life for me.

Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping.

Hubert Reeves

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hedgehog50 Croydon 20 Jul 17 10.19pm
Originally posted by sitdownstandup If I can live a life that causes as little harm to animals and insects thats an ideal life for me. What about microbes, and plants for that matter - they are living too. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 20 Jul 17 10.19pm

Originally posted by sitdownstandup

If I can live a life that causes as little harm to animals and insects thats an ideal life for me.

What about microbes, and plants for that matter - they are living too.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Kermit8 Hevon 20 Jul 17 11.04pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 What about microbes, and plants for that matter - they are living too. Your facetiousness is exploding back in your face now. Your point has been lost in the gunge. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 20 Jul 17 11.04pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What about microbes, and plants for that matter - they are living too.

Your facetiousness is exploding back in your face now. Your point has been lost in the gunge.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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sitdownstandup 21 Jul 17 2.18am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 What about microbes, and plants for that matter - they are living too. The definition of veganism covers that.. to live a life that as far as practicable and possible excludes harming animals.Although plants are not included in the definition I doubt that veggies or vegans are deliberately trying to destroy plants and kill them to compensate for the fact they are not killing animals. I doubt anyone could live as a vegan without eating plants or causing some harm to micro organisms but just because you do that does not then mean that we should also pay for the killing of millions of animals too. Edited by sitdownstandup (21 Jul 2017 2.19am) Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping. Hubert Reeves
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sitdownstandup

21 Jul 17 2.18am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What about microbes, and plants for that matter - they are living too.

The definition of veganism covers that.. to live a life that as far as practicable and possible excludes harming animals.Although plants are not included in the definition I doubt that veggies or vegans are deliberately trying to destroy plants and kill them to compensate for the fact they are not killing animals. I doubt anyone could live as a vegan without eating plants or causing some harm to micro organisms but just because you do that does not then mean that we should also pay for the killing of millions of animals too.

Edited by sitdownstandup (21 Jul 2017 2.19am)

Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping.

Hubert Reeves

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hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Jul 17 7.48am
Originally posted by sitdownstandup The definition of veganism covers that.. to live a life that as far as practicable and possible excludes harming animals.Although plants are not included in the definition I doubt that veggies or vegans are deliberately trying to destroy plants and kill them to compensate for the fact they are not killing animals. I doubt anyone could live as a vegan without eating plants or causing some harm to micro organisms but just because you do that does not then mean that we should also pay for the killing of millions of animals too. Edited by sitdownstandup (21 Jul 2017 2.19am) What? So, you accidentally eat fruit and veg do you?Presumably you avoid using anti-bacterial soap? Or all types of soap? What about that weapon of mass destruction penicillin? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 21 Jul 17 7.48am

Originally posted by sitdownstandup

The definition of veganism covers that.. to live a life that as far as practicable and possible excludes harming animals.Although plants are not included in the definition I doubt that veggies or vegans are deliberately trying to destroy plants and kill them to compensate for the fact they are not killing animals. I doubt anyone could live as a vegan without eating plants or causing some harm to micro organisms but just because you do that does not then mean that we should also pay for the killing of millions of animals too.

Edited by sitdownstandup (21 Jul 2017 2.19am)

What? So, you accidentally eat fruit and veg do you?Presumably you avoid using anti-bacterial soap? Or all types of soap? What about that weapon of mass destruction penicillin?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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