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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 13 Jun 17 6.04pm
Originally posted by npn I actually read your opinions with interest normally, but that is a pathetic attempt to make Abbott un-criticisable for the precise reasons you claim she is criticiseed. Certain people in politics are inherently unlikable, examples are plentiful: Thatcher, Gove, Abbott, Sturgeon. They will get more roundly criticised for that reason, not because they are black, or Scottish, or female, or anything else. To say people only criticise Abbott because she's black and a woman is a woeful argument. Mostly they criticise her because she's bloody awful and, for a person of obviously high intellect, she does a fantastic impression of a f*cking idiot! But she's not woeful and has represented her constituency very well for 30 years. I didn't say that was the sole reason for critique, I said that it was why she's given an unfair ride when she does make mistakes relative to other politicians. She's been a trail blazer no doubt but this is largely overlooked and instead she's derided for her mistakes, which are no worse than some and far more excusable than many. She certainly deserves criticism for some things she's said and done but to say she's unintelligent is wrong and to give her the abuse she is getting is wrong.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 13 Jun 17 6.04pm

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Originally posted by npn

I actually read your opinions with interest normally, but that is a pathetic attempt to make Abbott un-criticisable for the precise reasons you claim she is criticiseed.

Certain people in politics are inherently unlikable, examples are plentiful: Thatcher, Gove, Abbott, Sturgeon. They will get more roundly criticised for that reason, not because they are black, or Scottish, or female, or anything else. To say people only criticise Abbott because she's black and a woman is a woeful argument. Mostly they criticise her because she's bloody awful and, for a person of obviously high intellect, she does a fantastic impression of a f*cking idiot!

But she's not woeful and has represented her constituency very well for 30 years.

I didn't say that was the sole reason for critique, I said that it was why she's given an unfair ride when she does make mistakes relative to other politicians.

She's been a trail blazer no doubt but this is largely overlooked and instead she's derided for her mistakes, which are no worse than some and far more excusable than many. She certainly deserves criticism for some things she's said and done but to say she's unintelligent is wrong and to give her the abuse she is getting is wrong.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Jun 17 6.05pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 This is why people think the right wing are less intelligent, the constant projecting of their own perception over reality. Around 30% of those voting for an exit were from a left wing background. They also tended to ignore the Labour MPs who backed Exit and the Trade Union movements against the EU. Its the whole right good, left bad mentality that lets the right down (and the same is true of the left). Edited by jamiemartin721 (13 Jun 2017 5.55pm) I agree, most of these were the working class left. It is the mainly middle class 'intelligent' people on the left who are dogma-ridden and are responsible for how the Labour movement has metamorphosed into the household of The Young Ones. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 13 Jun 17 6.05pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

This is why people think the right wing are less intelligent, the constant projecting of their own perception over reality.

Around 30% of those voting for an exit were from a left wing background. They also tended to ignore the Labour MPs who backed Exit and the Trade Union movements against the EU.

Its the whole right good, left bad mentality that lets the right down (and the same is true of the left).

Edited by jamiemartin721 (13 Jun 2017 5.55pm)

I agree, most of these were the working class left. It is the mainly middle class 'intelligent' people on the left who are dogma-ridden and are responsible for how the Labour movement has metamorphosed into the household of The Young Ones.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Jun 17 6.05pm
Originally posted by npn I actually read your opinions with interest normally, but that is a pathetic attempt to make Abbott un-criticisable for the precise reasons you claim she is criticiseed. Certain people in politics are inherently unlikable, examples are plentiful: Thatcher, Gove, Abbott, Sturgeon. They will get more roundly criticised for that reason, not because they are black, or Scottish, or female, or anything else. To say people only criticise Abbott because she's black and a woman is a woeful argument. Mostly they criticise her because she's bloody awful and, for a person of obviously high intellect, she does a fantastic impression of a fcking idiot! I think its unfair to put Thatcher in with those three. Thatcher was always an enemy you kind of had to respect. She wasn't really a popularist and I hated her, but I did respect her and she earned her place in UK history (like her or hate her) Sturgeon, Grove and Abbot, are all disposable faces. I always quite liked Mo Mowlem in Labour and Robin Cook. Its a bit like Gerry Adams. F*king hate the man, but I do kind of respect what he did in terms of the peace process and Good Friday Agreement. Edited by jamiemartin721 (13 Jun 2017 6.06pm) "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Jun 17 6.05pm

Originally posted by npn

I actually read your opinions with interest normally, but that is a pathetic attempt to make Abbott un-criticisable for the precise reasons you claim she is criticiseed.

Certain people in politics are inherently unlikable, examples are plentiful: Thatcher, Gove, Abbott, Sturgeon. They will get more roundly criticised for that reason, not because they are black, or Scottish, or female, or anything else. To say people only criticise Abbott because she's black and a woman is a woeful argument. Mostly they criticise her because she's bloody awful and, for a person of obviously high intellect, she does a fantastic impression of a f*cking idiot!

I think its unfair to put Thatcher in with those three. Thatcher was always an enemy you kind of had to respect. She wasn't really a popularist and I hated her, but I did respect her and she earned her place in UK history (like her or hate her)

Sturgeon, Grove and Abbot, are all disposable faces. I always quite liked Mo Mowlem in Labour and Robin Cook.

Its a bit like Gerry Adams. F**king hate the man, but I do kind of respect what he did in terms of the peace process and Good Friday Agreement.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (13 Jun 2017 6.06pm)

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Jun 17 6.05pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle The article stipulates that there are (obviously) exceptions to the rule. So you've proven nothing other than that you're a bit of a tit and not very funny. In a short defence of Abbott, if you actually knew anything about her you'd know that your statement is nothing other than mud slinging based on mistakes in a couple of interviews. If you actually knew anything about her background and record over the last 30+ years you'd think differently. Her constituents clearly see the work that she's done and rewarded her again this year with huge numbers of votes and huge majority. The attacks on Abbott on here and in the wider press have been nothing short of shameful. She's held to a much higher standard than other politicians simply because she's black and a woman. Theresa May had a far worse campaign and even lied about making u-turns, and while she has subsequently come under attack for her failures she's not been subject to the level of abuse that Abbott has. The reaction and scepticism surrounding her illness is another example of people, especially in the press, giving Abbott a much harder time than other politicians. Really? IS there a standard low enough for her to be held to? She simply isn't up to the job. There are black politicians who are far more capable.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Jun 17 6.05pm

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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

The article stipulates that there are (obviously) exceptions to the rule. So you've proven nothing other than that you're a bit of a tit and not very funny.

In a short defence of Abbott, if you actually knew anything about her you'd know that your statement is nothing other than mud slinging based on mistakes in a couple of interviews. If you actually knew anything about her background and record over the last 30+ years you'd think differently. Her constituents clearly see the work that she's done and rewarded her again this year with huge numbers of votes and huge majority.

The attacks on Abbott on here and in the wider press have been nothing short of shameful. She's held to a much higher standard than other politicians simply because she's black and a woman. Theresa May had a far worse campaign and even lied about making u-turns, and while she has subsequently come under attack for her failures she's not been subject to the level of abuse that Abbott has. The reaction and scepticism surrounding her illness is another example of people, especially in the press, giving Abbott a much harder time than other politicians.

Really? IS there a standard low enough for her to be held to?
She simply isn't up to the job. There are black politicians who are far more capable.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Jun 17 6.07pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Yes, and we should have no problem with even actual communists being leaders of parties or even governments if they are democratically elected. Even Communists, should be represented in Parliament. Do you take a similar view with the BNP? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 13 Jun 17 6.07pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Yes, and we should have no problem with even actual communists being leaders of parties or even governments if they are democratically elected.

Even Communists, should be represented in Parliament.

Do you take a similar view with the BNP?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Jun 17 6.09pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Really? IS there a standard low enough for her to be held to? She simply isn't up to the job. There are black politicians who are far more capable. In fairness to her, it does seem that she might well be seriously ill. I tend to agree, that I wouldn't want her in power, but recently she's been 'somewhat out of it' on a different scale. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Jun 17 6.09pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Really? IS there a standard low enough for her to be held to?
She simply isn't up to the job. There are black politicians who are far more capable.

In fairness to her, it does seem that she might well be seriously ill. I tend to agree, that I wouldn't want her in power, but recently she's been 'somewhat out of it' on a different scale.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 13 Jun 17 6.10pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle So being left of centre means: "For the left, their politics is more like a religion, more of a blind faith, a belief in a golden future - like religious peoples' heaven." Rather simply than observing that inequality is inefficient and poverty a waste and that cuts to public spending and services in an economic downturn is both economically and morally questionable? I would say the statement is true of activists....You tend to get more activists on the left than right but it's not an exclusive problem. Most activists are unpleasant pains in the arse.....A little harsh I know but I find as a generalised rule it rarely fails. However it's not really an excuse to make silly mass exaggerations about Ukip voters. Believing in border controls is not hating foreigners....I had genuinely thought the argument had moved on from there. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Jun 17 6.10pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

So being left of centre means:

"For the left, their politics is more like a religion, more of a blind faith, a belief in a golden future - like religious peoples' heaven."

Rather simply than observing that inequality is inefficient and poverty a waste and that cuts to public spending and services in an economic downturn is both economically and morally questionable?

I would say the statement is true of activists....You tend to get more activists on the left than right but it's not an exclusive problem. Most activists are unpleasant pains in the arse.....A little harsh I know but I find as a generalised rule it rarely fails.

However it's not really an excuse to make silly mass exaggerations about Ukip voters.

Believing in border controls is not hating foreigners....I had genuinely thought the argument had moved on from there.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 13 Jun 17 6.12pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 In fairness to her, it does seem that she might well be seriously ill. I tend to agree, that I wouldn't want her in power, but recently she's been 'somewhat out of it' on a different scale. I quite like David Lemmy....I didn't like his comments over Brexit personally but in general...good brain and operator. Surprised he hasn't be used more in Labour....probably not favour of the month. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Jun 17 6.12pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

In fairness to her, it does seem that she might well be seriously ill. I tend to agree, that I wouldn't want her in power, but recently she's been 'somewhat out of it' on a different scale.

I quite like David Lemmy....I didn't like his comments over Brexit personally but in general...good brain and operator.

Surprised he hasn't be used more in Labour....probably not favour of the month.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Jun 17 6.14pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Do you take a similar view with the BNP? Yep. If 5% of the population voted BNP, they should be represented in parliament proportionately. I believe when they polled 5% of the vote a couple of elections ago, I said as much. The problem really stems from the fact that we preclude so many smaller political influences from parliament, that more 'militant means' become the means by which they participate in politics. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Jun 17 6.14pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Do you take a similar view with the BNP?

Yep. If 5% of the population voted BNP, they should be represented in parliament proportionately. I believe when they polled 5% of the vote a couple of elections ago, I said as much.

The problem really stems from the fact that we preclude so many smaller political influences from parliament, that more 'militant means' become the means by which they participate in politics.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Jun 17 6.14pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 In fairness to her, it does seem that she might well be seriously ill. I tend to agree, that I wouldn't want her in power, but recently she's been 'somewhat out of it' on a different scale. FAir enough? What is Corbyn's excuse?
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Jun 17 6.14pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

In fairness to her, it does seem that she might well be seriously ill. I tend to agree, that I wouldn't want her in power, but recently she's been 'somewhat out of it' on a different scale.

FAir enough?

What is Corbyn's excuse?

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Stirlingsays 13 Jun 17 6.15pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 I agree, most of these were the working class left. It is the mainly middle class 'intelligent' people on the left who are dogma-ridden and are responsible for how the Labour movement has metamorphosed into the household of The Young Ones. What was it someone said, 'Leninists and John Lennonists.' Painfully funny in its accuracy. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Jun 17 6.15pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What was it someone said, 'Leninists and John Lennonists.'

Painfully funny in its accuracy.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 13 Jun 17 6.16pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Do you take a similar view with the BNP? No because they are right wing and therefore thick. QED "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
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pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 13 Jun 17 6.16pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Do you take a similar view with the BNP?

No because they are right wing and therefore thick.

QED

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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