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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Apr 17 7.46pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Which human rights do you think we will lose when we leave the EU? Don't you think we are capable of framing our own laws and rights? [Link] [Link] Right to a fair trial?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Apr 17 7.46pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Which human rights do you think we will lose when we leave the EU? Don't you think we are capable of framing our own laws and rights?

[Link]

Right to a fair trial?

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hedgehog50 Croydon 04 Apr 17 7.48pm
Oh come on Nick, don't be daft. You get a much fairer trial here than in most places. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 04 Apr 17 7.48pm

Oh come on Nick, don't be daft. You get a much fairer trial here than in most places.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Apr 17 8.07pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Oh come on Nick, don't be daft. You get a much fairer trial here than in most places. Indeed, but the secret courts do exist, with some on trial not knowing what they are being tried for. This is worth a (biased) read on how Human rights are being eroded. However people complain 'its a lefty blog' it does contain evidenced truths. [Link]
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Apr 17 8.07pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Oh come on Nick, don't be daft. You get a much fairer trial here than in most places.

Indeed, but the secret courts do exist, with some on trial not knowing what they are being tried for.

This is worth a (biased) read on how Human rights are being eroded. However people complain 'its a lefty blog' it does contain evidenced truths.

[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 04 Apr 17 10.01pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Indeed, but the secret courts do exist, with some on trial not knowing what they are being tried for. This is worth a (biased) read on how Human rights are being eroded. However people complain 'its a lefty blog' it does contain evidenced truths. [Link] Is the following bit from the link 'evidenced truth'? "Nowadays the UK is governed by one of the most right-wing authoritarian regimes in the world, one that is determined to erode the rights of citizens as much as possible and establish powerful state surveillance apparatus that would have made agents of the East German Stasi or the Russian KGB turn green with envy" Do you seriously think we are 'one of the most right-wing authoritarian regimes in the world'? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 04 Apr 17 10.01pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Indeed, but the secret courts do exist, with some on trial not knowing what they are being tried for.

This is worth a (biased) read on how Human rights are being eroded. However people complain 'its a lefty blog' it does contain evidenced truths.

[Link]

Is the following bit from the link 'evidenced truth'? "Nowadays the UK is governed by one of the most right-wing authoritarian regimes in the world, one that is determined to erode the rights of citizens as much as possible and establish powerful state surveillance apparatus that would have made agents of the East German Stasi or the Russian KGB turn green with envy"
Do you seriously think we are 'one of the most right-wing authoritarian regimes in the world'?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Apr 17 10.06pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Is the following bit from the link 'evidenced truth'? "Nowadays the UK is governed by one of the most right-wing authoritarian regimes in the world, one that is determined to erode the rights of citizens as much as possible and establish powerful state surveillance apparatus that would have made agents of the East German Stasi or the Russian KGB turn green with envy" Do you seriously think we are 'one of the most right-wing authoritarian regimes in the world'? Like I said, there's bias in the article, but also a lot of truth.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Apr 17 10.06pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Like I said, there's bias in the article, but also a lot of truth.

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Part Time James 04 Apr 17 10.22pm
Maybe all the threads about Brexit could be merged and we can all play soggy biscuit.
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Part Time James

04 Apr 17 10.22pm

Send a Private Message to Part Time James

Maybe all the threads about Brexit could be merged and we can all play soggy biscuit.

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HeathMan Purley 04 Apr 17 11.33pm
Maybe all the threads about Brexit could be merged and we can all play soggy biscuit. mrs May has said that we will - post Brexit - have closer ties with countries outside the EU. I note the possible desire to embrace Australian culture.
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HeathMan

Purley 04 Apr 17 11.33pm

Maybe all the threads about Brexit could be merged and we can all play soggy biscuit.

mrs May has said that we will - post Brexit - have closer ties with countries outside the EU.

I note the possible desire to embrace Australian culture.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 11.11am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Which human rights do you think we will lose when we leave the EU? Don't you think we are capable of framing our own laws and rights? Yes we are, but were not ratifying or independently adjudicating on them, which is why the courts of appeal and ultimately the European court was introduced in the first place, to ensure legal rights, due process and independency of the judiciary. Edited by jamiemartin721 (05 Apr 2017 11.12am) "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Apr 17 11.11am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Which human rights do you think we will lose when we leave the EU? Don't you think we are capable of framing our own laws and rights?

Yes we are, but were not ratifying or independently adjudicating on them, which is why the courts of appeal and ultimately the European court was introduced in the first place, to ensure legal rights, due process and independency of the judiciary.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (05 Apr 2017 11.12am)

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 11.11am
Originally posted by HeathMan Maybe all the threads about Brexit could be merged and we can all play soggy biscuit. mrs May has said that we will - post Brexit - have closer ties with countries outside the EU. I note the possible desire to embrace Australian culture. She said that, whilst visiting Saudi Arabia. Take from that what you will. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Apr 17 11.11am

Originally posted by HeathMan

Maybe all the threads about Brexit could be merged and we can all play soggy biscuit.

mrs May has said that we will - post Brexit - have closer ties with countries outside the EU.

I note the possible desire to embrace Australian culture.

She said that, whilst visiting Saudi Arabia. Take from that what you will.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 11.18am
Originally posted by nickgusset [Link] [Link] Right to a fair trial? Technically the provisions of the Human Rights Act from the EU, is suspended under three key issues, one of which is National Security / Terrorism. But the concern here is whether or not secret courts are even necessary, as juries could in theory be held accountable to the Official Secrets act and vetted. What is really unacceptable in these cases, is that the move was immediately to the system with the least amount of due process, oversight and fair trial. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Apr 17 11.18am

Originally posted by nickgusset

[Link]

Right to a fair trial?

Technically the provisions of the Human Rights Act from the EU, is suspended under three key issues, one of which is National Security / Terrorism.

But the concern here is whether or not secret courts are even necessary, as juries could in theory be held accountable to the Official Secrets act and vetted.

What is really unacceptable in these cases, is that the move was immediately to the system with the least amount of due process, oversight and fair trial.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Apr 17 1.02pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Yes we are, but were not ratifying or independently adjudicating on them, which is why the courts of appeal and ultimately the European court was introduced in the first place, to ensure legal rights, due process and independency of the judiciary. Edited by jamiemartin721 (05 Apr 2017 11.12am) What makes you think that foreign courts and judges are more capable of ensuring legal rights, due process and independancy of the judiciary? Many EU member countries have a far worse record in these matters than we have. We have our own appeals system to settle such matters. Your idea that we need hand-holding by Europe is daft. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Apr 17 1.02pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Edited by jamiemartin721 (05 Apr 2017 11.12am)

What makes you think that foreign courts and judges are more capable of ensuring legal rights, due process and independancy of the judiciary? Many EU member countries have a far worse record in these matters than we have. We have our own appeals system to settle such matters. Your idea that we need hand-holding by Europe is daft.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 1.21pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 What makes you think that foreign courts and judges are more capable of ensuring legal rights, due process and independancy of the judiciary? Many EU member countries have a far worse record in these matters than we have. We have our own appeals system to settle such matters. Your idea that we need hand-holding by Europe is daft. In order for a case to be passed to the European Courts it requires leave to appeal from the highest courts of Appeal in the UK. As such, the UK judicial system makes the decision that it cannot reliably and fairly adjudicate on the matter. So a case goes to the European Court when the Appeal Courts cannot conclusively, and fairly, adjudicate on a conflict in points of law. No hand holding at all. If we were independent, we'd have to carry the entire cost of the very specialist legal expertise provided by the European Court, rather than sharing it with 27 other nations (plus rather than providing a single judge, we'd need to provide at least three). Its a) more cost effective b) more independent c) allows for a wider basis of legal precedent from across Europe where similar cases of conflict have already been resolved. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Apr 17 1.21pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

In order for a case to be passed to the European Courts it requires leave to appeal from the highest courts of Appeal in the UK. As such, the UK judicial system makes the decision that it cannot reliably and fairly adjudicate on the matter.

So a case goes to the European Court when the Appeal Courts cannot conclusively, and fairly, adjudicate on a conflict in points of law.

No hand holding at all. If we were independent, we'd have to carry the entire cost of the very specialist legal expertise provided by the European Court, rather than sharing it with 27 other nations (plus rather than providing a single judge, we'd need to provide at least three).

Its a) more cost effective b) more independent c) allows for a wider basis of legal precedent from across Europe where similar cases of conflict have already been resolved.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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