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7mins In the bush 22 Aug 16 8.58pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
One thing we, those who are outside enough to say 'they made choices' is that we don't understand that often the choice is to be in a gang, or to be unprotected entirely from everyone. Most gangs originate as a means of protection from the predatory nature of existing gangs. People tend to get involved because it offers protection, and power, that simply being 'alone' on the estate doesn't. Status etc plays a role. But gangs typically form to protect neighbourhoods from other gangs, which is of course a vicious cycle (its why protection is called protection). My cousin (mentioned earlier in this thread) dabbled in this world because of greed. He made a choice, he didn't wanna work in Sports Direct for minimum wage. His dad was off pretty much from the start, his mum worked in central London (on the underground), they never pushed him in terms of school/education. So he gets to 17, and his options ar minimum wage or crime.
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kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 22 Aug 16 10.51pm | |
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Stop & Search dramatically decreases and knife crime goes up..... Well who would of thought it??? Well done Teresa May...
Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!! |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Aug 16 12.54am | |
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Originally posted by Sportyteacher
Horrific incident and tragic for the family concerned. You're so right to also pull apart the stupidity of these knife-carrying idiots who like to think that they are so hard but are nothing more than shallow-minded boneheads. There should ALWAYS be a zero tolerance attitude to knife crime by police and schools however resources on both fronts continue to be increasingly stretched thanks to continuing government cuts and workload pressures. There is also a danger that society becomes desensitised to knife crime fatalities due to its frequency. Sport can also do much more to promote positive role models to younger generations. Yep shame the millions invested in sport went to elite not grassroots movements, meanwhile the government still allow the sale of (once public owned) school fields to make academy chains a bit of profit. More needs to be done in schools to educate kids about the dangers of knife carrying - alas a narrowing maths and english lead curriculum doesn't allow time for this.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Aug 16 9.24am | |
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Originally posted by CJr94
I would say for some, that definitely is the motivation. However, me and a number of my friends grew up in areas that probably frequent crimewatch often. We didn't come from well off homes. We had good parents pushing us in the right direction. I think a lot of the blame has to be held at the parents doors. It is obviously easy for me to say that, but I do believe that is the case. A number of people from where I grew up were "affiliated" so to speak, but never involved. Went to school / college / uni and had friends who did what they did, but they never followed suit and never did it themselves. When you grow up in horrible shytehole places, young kids often look up to the young lads, they've got cars, money, respect.. etc etc. Think it's a good way of life. Get so involved, that they can't un-involve (if that's a real world rofl) themselves as they've got criminal records, etc etc.. no employer will touch them. They sort of condemn themselves to a life of "illegitimate" living, it's a one-way road. Parents need to get there kids out more and show them there is more to life. Probably the single biggest factor I'd imagine. Whilst by no means a consistent decider, having options, good influences and 'good parents' is a major factor. Unfortunately, that's not something that's controllable. Whilst families must take some of the blame, there isn't too much our society can do to ensure good parenting. Problematically, any one can become a parent, even if they don't want to. Poor choices are common place, and it doesn't help that we have large influential elements in society that foster the idea of propogation as achievement in life.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Aug 16 9.30am | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
My cousin (mentioned earlier in this thread) dabbled in this world because of greed. He made a choice, he didn't wanna work in Sports Direct for minimum wage. His dad was off pretty much from the start, his mum worked in central London (on the underground), they never pushed him in terms of school/education. So he gets to 17, and his options ar minimum wage or crime. Anti-intellectualism is the plague of the modern age. Fame, celebrity etc and so much is fostered on the idea that success and a good life is our entitlement - and the options of overcoming problems like poor education are very limited. I think it must be very difficult for people who've f**ked up their education to actually get anywhere in life - and that the options for overcoming those problems are sporadic. Our culture reflects a promotion of the idea that success is measured in status, celebrity and wealth, rather than individual personal achievement in life. And this is a problem, because the rise of 'reality stars' creates a platform that fosters the idea that people can be a success just by being themselves - Whilst work as a means of escaping poverty has become increasingly less viable. People are actually celebrated for their ignorance in our society, whilst people who have achieved great scientific or artistic achievement and contributions tend to be ignored.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Aug 16 9.36am | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
That's like saying there's no point in jailing drug/arms/people smugglers. They're all guilty of just having something they shouldn't too. If there was no punishment for being caught they'd simply do it again, like someone found carrying a knife would. If you'd just been inside for 5 years it might not make your keys, phone, wallet checklist for going out in future. Realistically, I'd say the first one really is a product of failure of the state to realise its fighting a war against what a significant percentage of the population want - and that prohibition, like in the 20s, has created a greater problem than drug addiction - and that the problem of drug use in society smaller than the consequences of drug related crime. But I certainly agree with the other two - I'd argue that the latter two are ethically and morally indefensible. Where as the first is a by product of a moral panic and the desire of the 'upper working and middle classes' to control behaviour they consider deviant. In the US you have situations where non-violent drug offenders are doing 55 years for 3oz of methamphetamine, which is more than most murderers will serve. that said, if you legalised tomorrow, those serving time for major drug offences, should not be pardoned or released either.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Aug 16 9.40am | |
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Due in Croydon Magistrate's Court today.
COYP |
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Stuk Top half 23 Aug 16 1.16pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Realistically, I'd say the first one really is a product of failure of the state to realise its fighting a war against what a significant percentage of the population want - and that prohibition, like in the 20s, has created a greater problem than drug addiction - and that the problem of drug use in society smaller than the consequences of drug related crime. But I certainly agree with the other two - I'd argue that the latter two are ethically and morally indefensible. Where as the first is a by product of a moral panic and the desire of the 'upper working and middle classes' to control behaviour they consider deviant. In the US you have situations where non-violent drug offenders are doing 55 years for 3oz of methamphetamine, which is more than most murderers will serve. that said, if you legalised tomorrow, those serving time for major drug offences, should not be pardoned or released either. I agree, it's a massive waste of money and a huge lost revenue stream. You only have to look at Colorado legalising one drug to see how much tax can be raised. Not to mention the police time saved and the number of people not becoming criminals for it. I only included it as an example of someone having something they shouldn't, as someone else suggested that carrying a knife was no more of a big deal than that.
Optimistic as ever |
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CJr94 Holmesdale Road 23 Aug 16 2.47pm | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Due in Croydon Magistrate's Court today. Plea hearing late november, sentencing next year - remanded in custody in the mean time.
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7mins In the bush 29 Aug 16 9.31am | |
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Was at Notting Hill Carnival yesterday, police were chasing loads of yoots, gangs obviously use this as a opportunity to settle scores. One officer told me they had made a arrest and were jeered and hustled by the crowd who were shouting abuse at them, the guy they arrested had a hunting knife on him.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Aug 16 12.46pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Was at Notting Hill Carnival yesterday, police were chasing loads of yoots, gangs obviously use this as a opportunity to settle scores. One officer told me they had made a arrest and were jeered and hustled by the crowd who were shouting abuse at them, the guy they arrested had a hunting knife on him. Its a shame. I'd been to the carnival a few times in the early 90s and it was great experience. The problems of gangs and gang violence are ruining communities and the policing strategys alone ultimately create divisions, because its not just enough to get arrests, that will never end the plague of gangs on those neighbourhoods - because it never addresses the causal factors that proliferate gangs and provide gangs with economical and social power.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Hrolf The Ganger 29 Aug 16 6.45pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Anti-intellectualism is the plague of the modern age. Fame, celebrity etc and so much is fostered on the idea that success and a good life is our entitlement - and the options of overcoming problems like poor education are very limited. I think it must be very difficult for people who've f**ked up their education to actually get anywhere in life - and that the options for overcoming those problems are sporadic. Our culture reflects a promotion of the idea that success is measured in status, celebrity and wealth, rather than individual personal achievement in life. And this is a problem, because the rise of 'reality stars' creates a platform that fosters the idea that people can be a success just by being themselves - Whilst work as a means of escaping poverty has become increasingly less viable. People are actually celebrated for their ignorance in our society, whilst people who have achieved great scientific or artistic achievement and contributions tend to be ignored. So true.
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