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jamiemartin721  Reading 10 Dec 15 11.26am |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 10.25am
I'm sure the victims families/friends of all the Muslim related atrocities are right in tune with his sentiments. Idiots? That describes Corbyn and his followers that believe this will be sorted by peaceful discussion when you're dealing with people prepared to blow themselves up FFS. Only in their grief and anger. Trumps statements are as useful as saying 'some men are rapists, therefore all men should be treated as rapists'. Its the lowest form of pandering rhetoric. I agree, the problem of IS and Al-Quada aren't going to be resolved peacefully, but equally they won't be resolved by simply targeting Muslims indiscriminately and prejudicially either. Similarly you can't resolve the problems of Mexican immigration without addressing the problems of Mexico. Plus of course IS also serves a much smaller threat to American lives, than Republican Gun Policy anyhow. His party actually blocked legislation that would prevent anyone on the 'terrorist no fly list' from being able to buy guns - which arguably would make total sense to anyone who is sane, in the world, anywhere except in the US. Its just fear mongering rhetoric by a man who will be a figurehead at best of another round of Neo-Conservative bulldozering of the Constitution of the US. It has no substance, no value, no legal possibility and would deliver nothing of value. Shame on the man, he's actually managed to demean US politics.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Dec 15 12.04pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Dec 2015 11.26am
I accept that not all Muslims want to maim or kill us, that's a given... BUT... the threat to all of us comes as a result of belief in Islam and the Khoran directing the killing of Kafirs (non believers) which certain members of the Muslim community have decided to take at face value and put it into practice. What Trump is suggesting is very much like putting everyone on the sex offenders list that views child p*rnography - they might go on to be paedophiles, so keep an eye on them for safety's sake. If Muslims were to denounce the Khoran's teachings and publicly announce that it is wrong to call for the killing of non-believers then we can allow them free passage to travel where and when they want. Until then we should view them all with suspicion and be on our guard... after all we don't know the ones that might be fundamentalists as against the benign/tolerant followers of Islam. It's just an extension of airport security... we've tightened up massively after the shoe bombers etc why not raise security another level and maybe ask more questions at boarding to prevent another bloody massacre or bombing of a plane? It might flush out those intent on destruction? I hate all religion, but right now Islam appears to be a dangerous barbaric ideology about 500 years behind modern times in it's thinking and preaching and treatment of women. Edited by Hoof Hearted (10 Dec 2015 12.16pm)
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 EverybodyDannsNow SE19 10 Dec 15 12.06pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 10.25am
Quote Alex1991 at 09 Dec 2015 9.44pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 09 Dec 2015 9.15am
Quote The Sash at 09 Dec 2015 8.36am
Cons for Trump for President: Pros for Trump as President: I say Vote Trump - That hair flapping about at Gatwick is worth the risk Edited by The Sash (09 Dec 2015 8.38am)
By the way it's not a wig, it's a very bad Bobby Charlton/Ralph Coates comb-over! With regard to what he said about Muslims he's saying what a load of people are thinking, but too scared to say it. Yes it's impractical to ban Muslims from USA or anywhere else, but it's got us talking about the problem with religious nutjobs and trying to find a solution.
It's his own hair - combed in a ridiculous fashion, but his own hair. I'm sure the victims families/friends of all the Muslim related atrocities are right in tune with his sentiments. Idiots? That describes Corbyn and his followers that believe this will be sorted by peaceful discussion when you're dealing with people prepared to blow themselves up FFS. How can you be sure? Not a dig, but a genuine questions - it's a big assumption to make - I've not heard one person who agrees with his point of view (which to be clear, is a total ban on Muslims entering the country). Interesting post from an actual victim of an attack, who's line of thinking couldn't be further from Trump's; [Link]
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Dec 15 12.14pm | |
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Quote EverybodyDannsNow at 10 Dec 2015 12.06pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 10.25am
Quote Alex1991 at 09 Dec 2015 9.44pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 09 Dec 2015 9.15am
Quote The Sash at 09 Dec 2015 8.36am
Cons for Trump for President: Pros for Trump as President: I say Vote Trump - That hair flapping about at Gatwick is worth the risk Edited by The Sash (09 Dec 2015 8.38am)
By the way it's not a wig, it's a very bad Bobby Charlton/Ralph Coates comb-over! With regard to what he said about Muslims he's saying what a load of people are thinking, but too scared to say it. Yes it's impractical to ban Muslims from USA or anywhere else, but it's got us talking about the problem with religious nutjobs and trying to find a solution.
It's his own hair - combed in a ridiculous fashion, but his own hair. I'm sure the victims families/friends of all the Muslim related atrocities are right in tune with his sentiments. Idiots? That describes Corbyn and his followers that believe this will be sorted by peaceful discussion when you're dealing with people prepared to blow themselves up FFS. How can you be sure? Not a dig, but a genuine questions - it's a big assumption to make - I've not heard one person who agrees with his point of view (which to be clear, is a total ban on Muslims entering the country).
I've made my feelings clear above... I know many will disagree with me but I genuinely believe we are in danger from Islam itself until they do the right thing and publicly distance themselves from the Khoran's clear instructions to kill all non-believers. It calls itself the religion of peace after all.
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leifandersonshair  Newport 10 Dec 15 12.17pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 12.04pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Dec 2015 11.26am
I accept that not all Muslims want to maim or kill us, that's a given... BUT... the threat to all of us comes as a result of belief in Islam and the Khoran directing the killing of Kafirs (non believers) which certain members of the Muslim community have decided to take at face value and put it into practice. What Rump is suggesting is very much like putting everyone on the sex offenders list that views child p***.graphy - they might go on to be paedophiles, so keep an eye on them for safety's sake. If Muslims were to denounce the Khoran's teachings and publicly announce that it is wrong to call for the killing of non-believers then we can allow them free passage to travel where and when they want. Until then we should view them all with suspicion and be on our guard... after all we don't know the ones that might be fundamentalists as against the benign/tolerant followers of Islam. It's just an extension of airport security... we've tightened up massively after the shoe bombers etc why not raise security another level and maybe ask more questions at boarding to prevent another bloody massacre or bombing of a plane? It might flush out those intent on destruction? I hate all religion, but right now Islam appears to be a dangerous barbaric ideology about 500 years behind modern times in it's thinking and preaching and treatment of women. Quite right. And anyone who has ever had or might have a mental illness too. After all, can never tell when one of them might flip their lid and attack someone. Maybe everyone who supports a football team ought to be on a watch list too- including all of us. After all, there is trouble at football grounds occasionally, so all football fans should be regarded as enemies of the state- can't tell which ones are the peaceful majority and which the potential hooligans after all! I don't much like religion myself, but yours is frankly one of the most extremely deluded arguments I have ever seen. Seriously. Demonising a minority always works out well, doesn't it?
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Dec 15 12.18pm | |
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Quote leifandersonshair at 10 Dec 2015 12.17pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 12.04pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Dec 2015 11.26am
I accept that not all Muslims want to maim or kill us, that's a given... BUT... the threat to all of us comes as a result of belief in Islam and the Khoran directing the killing of Kafirs (non believers) which certain members of the Muslim community have decided to take at face value and put it into practice. What Rump is suggesting is very much like putting everyone on the sex offenders list that views child p***.graphy - they might go on to be paedophiles, so keep an eye on them for safety's sake. If Muslims were to denounce the Khoran's teachings and publicly announce that it is wrong to call for the killing of non-believers then we can allow them free passage to travel where and when they want. Until then we should view them all with suspicion and be on our guard... after all we don't know the ones that might be fundamentalists as against the benign/tolerant followers of Islam. It's just an extension of airport security... we've tightened up massively after the shoe bombers etc why not raise security another level and maybe ask more questions at boarding to prevent another bloody massacre or bombing of a plane? It might flush out those intent on destruction? I hate all religion, but right now Islam appears to be a dangerous barbaric ideology about 500 years behind modern times in it's thinking and preaching and treatment of women. Quite right. And anyone who has ever had or might have a mental illness too. After all, can never tell when one of them might flip their lid and attack someone. Maybe everyone who supports a football team ought to be on a watch list too- including all of us. After all, there is trouble at football grounds occasionally, so all football fans should be regarded as enemies of the state- can't tell which ones are the peaceful majority and which the potential hooligans after all! I don't much like religion myself, but yours is frankly one of the most extremely deluded arguments I have ever seen. Seriously. Demonising a minority always works out well, doesn't it?
And for the record.. no one is demonising Muslims... but using your analogy above letting patients with mental illness roam around London has led to many deaths where people have been pushed under a train on the Underground by those that otherwise could have been detained in a secure hospital. Edited by Hoof Hearted (10 Dec 2015 12.35pm)
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Dec 15 12.40pm | |
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Those people that disagree with Trump.... tell us your plans to avoid further bloodshed rather than sarky responses and abusive quips. Seriously... I'd love to know how you're going to ensure our safety!
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| leifandersonshair Newport 10 Dec 15 12.42pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 12.18pm
Quote leifandersonshair at 10 Dec 2015 12.17pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 12.04pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Dec 2015 11.26am
I accept that not all Muslims want to maim or kill us, that's a given... BUT... the threat to all of us comes as a result of belief in Islam and the Khoran directing the killing of Kafirs (non believers) which certain members of the Muslim community have decided to take at face value and put it into practice. What Rump is suggesting is very much like putting everyone on the sex offenders list that views child p***.graphy - they might go on to be paedophiles, so keep an eye on them for safety's sake. If Muslims were to denounce the Khoran's teachings and publicly announce that it is wrong to call for the killing of non-believers then we can allow them free passage to travel where and when they want. Until then we should view them all with suspicion and be on our guard... after all we don't know the ones that might be fundamentalists as against the benign/tolerant followers of Islam. It's just an extension of airport security... we've tightened up massively after the shoe bombers etc why not raise security another level and maybe ask more questions at boarding to prevent another bloody massacre or bombing of a plane? It might flush out those intent on destruction? I hate all religion, but right now Islam appears to be a dangerous barbaric ideology about 500 years behind modern times in it's thinking and preaching and treatment of women. Quite right. And anyone who has ever had or might have a mental illness too. After all, can never tell when one of them might flip their lid and attack someone. Maybe everyone who supports a football team ought to be on a watch list too- including all of us. After all, there is trouble at football grounds occasionally, so all football fans should be regarded as enemies of the state- can't tell which ones are the peaceful majority and which the potential hooligans after all! I don't much like religion myself, but yours is frankly one of the most extremely deluded arguments I have ever seen. Seriously. Demonising a minority always works out well, doesn't it?
And for the record.. no one is demonising Muslims... but using your analogy above letting patients with mental illness roam around London has led to many deaths where people have been pushed under a train on the Underground by those that otherwise could have been detained in a secure hospital. Edited by Hoof Hearted (10 Dec 2015 12.35pm) Percentage of the UK population that are Muslim according to 2011 UK Census- 4.8%. Seems like a minority to me. Or do you mean that the number of violent/radical vs tolerant/non violent Muslims is not a minority? Happy to open up a new topic on mental health and the system if you'd like (I suspect we both agree that there are issues with it). My own fault for bringing it up, I suppose! Your post suggests that all Muslims should be viewed with suspicion, and that we should be on our guard- does that not strike you as demonizing a whole group?
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| paperhat croydon 10 Dec 15 12.45pm |
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Hoof, do you KNOW the Koran? the passages that refer to killing non believers are utterly minimal, probably equalled by 'our' very own Bible. just because some loon has chosen to take that passage and brainwash easilly led fools into thinking its a message from god doesnt A) make the koran and bad thing or B) make all muslims 'a risk'
Clinton is Clinton. I have known him for a long time, I know his mother... Simon Jordan |
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Dec 15 12.49pm | |
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Quote leifandersonshair at 10 Dec 2015 12.42pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 12.18pm
Quote leifandersonshair at 10 Dec 2015 12.17pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 12.04pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Dec 2015 11.26am
I accept that not all Muslims want to maim or kill us, that's a given... BUT... the threat to all of us comes as a result of belief in Islam and the Khoran directing the killing of Kafirs (non believers) which certain members of the Muslim community have decided to take at face value and put it into practice. What Rump is suggesting is very much like putting everyone on the sex offenders list that views child p***.graphy - they might go on to be paedophiles, so keep an eye on them for safety's sake. If Muslims were to denounce the Khoran's teachings and publicly announce that it is wrong to call for the killing of non-believers then we can allow them free passage to travel where and when they want. Until then we should view them all with suspicion and be on our guard... after all we don't know the ones that might be fundamentalists as against the benign/tolerant followers of Islam. It's just an extension of airport security... we've tightened up massively after the shoe bombers etc why not raise security another level and maybe ask more questions at boarding to prevent another bloody massacre or bombing of a plane? It might flush out those intent on destruction? I hate all religion, but right now Islam appears to be a dangerous barbaric ideology about 500 years behind modern times in it's thinking and preaching and treatment of women. Quite right. And anyone who has ever had or might have a mental illness too. After all, can never tell when one of them might flip their lid and attack someone. Maybe everyone who supports a football team ought to be on a watch list too- including all of us. After all, there is trouble at football grounds occasionally, so all football fans should be regarded as enemies of the state- can't tell which ones are the peaceful majority and which the potential hooligans after all! I don't much like religion myself, but yours is frankly one of the most extremely deluded arguments I have ever seen. Seriously. Demonising a minority always works out well, doesn't it?
And for the record.. no one is demonising Muslims... but using your analogy above letting patients with mental illness roam around London has led to many deaths where people have been pushed under a train on the Underground by those that otherwise could have been detained in a secure hospital. Edited by Hoof Hearted (10 Dec 2015 12.35pm) Percentage of the UK population that are Muslim according to 2011 UK Census- 4.8%. Seems like a minority to me. Or do you mean that the number of violent/radical vs tolerant/non violent Muslims is not a minority? Happy to open up a new topic on mental health and the system if you'd like (I suspect we both agree that there are issues with it). My own fault for bringing it up, I suppose! Your post suggests that all Muslims should be viewed with suspicion, and that we should be on our guard- does that not strike you as demonizing a whole group?
Viewing anyone with suspicion is not demonisation. If you know a terrorist is more likely to come from a particular group you are on your guard when dealing with people from that group. You like analogies... my dog doesn't like other dogs so when I'm out walking him I shorten his lead when another dog approaches, so I can control his actions. Basic commonsense?
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| Hoof Hearted 10 Dec 15 12.56pm | |
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Quote paperhat at 10 Dec 2015 12.45pm
Hoof, do you KNOW the Koran? the passages that refer to killing non believers are utterly minimal, probably equalled by 'our' very own Bible. just because some loon has chosen to take that passage and brainwash easilly led fools into thinking its a message from god doesnt A) make the koran and bad thing or B) make all muslims 'a risk'
As I said earlier I hate and despise all religion, so quoting the Bible is no defence or excuse either - they all try to brainwash their followers. As I also said earlier Islam is about 500 years behind the rest of society with it's ideology and treatment of women, gay people and non believers. Tolerance is unknown to them.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Dec 15 12.57pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 10 Dec 2015 12.40pm
Those people that disagree with Trump.... tell us your plans to avoid further bloodshed rather than sarky responses and abusive quips. Seriously... I'd love to know how you're going to ensure our safety!
Anyone who claims they can assure safety is lying. Its impossible to achieve and its an absurd form of rhetoric to assume that 'demonising all Muslims' will in anyway serve to make a country safer. How do you actually prove someone is a Muslim, and say not a Christian? The 9/11 Attackers specifically went out drinking and hung out in strip clubs to deflect attention. Its important to remember that martyrdom ensures entry into paradise, irrespective of your sins. I don't think it would be a stretch to say terrorists would be honest about their religion when conducting 'martyrdom operations'. All it would mean is a increasing lack of Muslim intelligence operatives on the ground for say the CIA and reduced language experts for the NSA to exploit, essentially reducing the capacity for Intelligence agencies - Which would reduce the safety of the US. Its vital for counter-terrorism to be able to utilise and protect assets of value. Alienating as many Muslims as possible to target militant groups and their allies is absurdly short sighted.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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