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stevegood 05 Nov 15 2.34pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Nov 2015 10.03am
Quote stevegood at 04 Nov 2015 11.03am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Nov 2015 10.54am
Quote matt_himself at 04 Nov 2015 8.26am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Nov 2015 8.14am
Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 10.31pm
Quote leifandersonshair at 03 Nov 2015 7.08pm
The politics and the system work- but, as Serial notes, state socialism is unsustainable in the current global climate of unfettered capitalism. Just as, in a world of successful socialist states, the single capitalist country would inevitably fail. Calling socialism 'mumbo jumbo' is lazy and no real argument. Capitalism is a bunch of old hogwash. See? I can do it too!
Venezuela would probably fit that bill. Do you include Sweden?
Please provide evidence that Venezuela is democratic. From everything I have read, the government there is doing a lot of things to restrict freedom that if they happened elsewhere, you and your sort would be up in arms over. Sweden isn't socialist. You can delude yourself that the 'Nordic model' is socialism but it clearly isn't. It is a free market economy, highly taxed and with a social safety net. It is not socialist by definition. Indeed, but its still democratic. In the same way we're democratic, whilst fitting into a system that favours the dominant party. We have a system where 15% of the electorate (roughly) vote for the Greens and UKIP (they got a seat each) - Hardly a fair model when you consider the votes the Liberal Democrats received was at least half that, and they got 8 seats. Hardly a fair system either. Sweden You talk about 'social restrictions', 'a critique of capitalism' and 'a socialist model'. In fact it is just a democratically elected government passing laws that they think benefit society - just as we have done in this country over the years. It is not socialism at all. Sweden would quickly go down the pan if all means of production, distribution and exchange were in the hands of the state.
In terms of socialism, I regard the vanguard approach of Marxist-Lenninism and Moaists as being a 'failed experiement' as it forces socialism by force of arms and tyranny, but proscribe to the approach of Marx where in Socialism must grow out of the failures of capitalism by the will of the people as a social change (similar to how capitalism grew out of the industrial revolution and the demise of agrarianism, which replaced feudalism). Sweden also requires very strict laws on the economic stability of companies, that would be considered Marxist by any other standards, that are specifically devised towards ensuring a company security for the benefit of employees and the state, rather than the directors. so for me, Sweden represents the way forwards, capitalism coupled to a social or socialist priority. I believe in the freedom of the individual (being more of an anarchist than a commie), and democracy that represents each and every single person. These I feel are vital to prevent tyranny of the majority (which communism, represents). As for the UK passing laws for the benefit of society, that I disagree with, for most of my life I would say we pass laws based on maintaining the support of the parties voters, and primiarly the interests of corporations. If you don't nationalise all means of production distribution and exchanges, then it is not Socialist.
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Lyons550 Shirley 05 Nov 15 2.48pm | |
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Quote chris123 at 05 Nov 2015 7.49am
Venezuela has the world's highest rate of inflation, at 100% and forecast to hit 150% by the end of the year. The exchange rate is shot, hyper inflation just around the corner - with such an abundance of natural resources, this is some feat.
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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chris123 hove actually 05 Nov 15 2.51pm | |
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Quote stevegood at 05 Nov 2015 2.34pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 05 Nov 2015 10.03am
Quote stevegood at 04 Nov 2015 11.03am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Nov 2015 10.54am
Quote matt_himself at 04 Nov 2015 8.26am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Nov 2015 8.14am
Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 10.31pm
Quote leifandersonshair at 03 Nov 2015 7.08pm
The politics and the system work- but, as Serial notes, state socialism is unsustainable in the current global climate of unfettered capitalism. Just as, in a world of successful socialist states, the single capitalist country would inevitably fail. Calling socialism 'mumbo jumbo' is lazy and no real argument. Capitalism is a bunch of old hogwash. See? I can do it too!
Venezuela would probably fit that bill. Do you include Sweden?
Please provide evidence that Venezuela is democratic. From everything I have read, the government there is doing a lot of things to restrict freedom that if they happened elsewhere, you and your sort would be up in arms over. Sweden isn't socialist. You can delude yourself that the 'Nordic model' is socialism but it clearly isn't. It is a free market economy, highly taxed and with a social safety net. It is not socialist by definition. Indeed, but its still democratic. In the same way we're democratic, whilst fitting into a system that favours the dominant party. We have a system where 15% of the electorate (roughly) vote for the Greens and UKIP (they got a seat each) - Hardly a fair model when you consider the votes the Liberal Democrats received was at least half that, and they got 8 seats. Hardly a fair system either. Sweden You talk about 'social restrictions', 'a critique of capitalism' and 'a socialist model'. In fact it is just a democratically elected government passing laws that they think benefit society - just as we have done in this country over the years. It is not socialism at all. Sweden would quickly go down the pan if all means of production, distribution and exchange were in the hands of the state.
In terms of socialism, I regard the vanguard approach of Marxist-Lenninism and Moaists as being a 'failed experiement' as it forces socialism by force of arms and tyranny, but proscribe to the approach of Marx where in Socialism must grow out of the failures of capitalism by the will of the people as a social change (similar to how capitalism grew out of the industrial revolution and the demise of agrarianism, which replaced feudalism). Sweden also requires very strict laws on the economic stability of companies, that would be considered Marxist by any other standards, that are specifically devised towards ensuring a company security for the benefit of employees and the state, rather than the directors. so for me, Sweden represents the way forwards, capitalism coupled to a social or socialist priority. I believe in the freedom of the individual (being more of an anarchist than a commie), and democracy that represents each and every single person. These I feel are vital to prevent tyranny of the majority (which communism, represents). As for the UK passing laws for the benefit of society, that I disagree with, for most of my life I would say we pass laws based on maintaining the support of the parties voters, and primiarly the interests of corporations. If you don't nationalise all means of production distribution and exchanges, then it is not Socialist.
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chris123 hove actually 05 Nov 15 2.53pm | |
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Quote Lyons550 at 05 Nov 2015 2.48pm
Quote chris123 at 05 Nov 2015 7.49am
Venezuela has the world's highest rate of inflation, at 100% and forecast to hit 150% by the end of the year. The exchange rate is shot, hyper inflation just around the corner - with such an abundance of natural resources, this is some feat.
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Nov 15 4.14pm | |
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P Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 2.23pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 2.04pm
The most content, best run countries in the world are mostly borderline Socialist with a bit of healthy capitalism thrown in: Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Norway. The usual suspects. S'funny how that lot aren't repulsed by aspects of leftism and yet are pretty successful at 'society'. If only they would listen to the deep thinking, rational, anti-left ranters on here the could do it so much better. As good as the UK and USA even. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Nov 2015 2.05pm) Denmark - centre right 2015 So really heavily left then... As for most content, they all have higher suicide rates than the UK.
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Stuk Top half 05 Nov 15 4.25pm | |
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Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.14pm
P Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 2.23pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 2.04pm
The most content, best run countries in the world are mostly borderline Socialist with a bit of healthy capitalism thrown in: Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Norway. The usual suspects. S'funny how that lot aren't repulsed by aspects of leftism and yet are pretty successful at 'society'. If only they would listen to the deep thinking, rational, anti-left ranters on here the could do it so much better. As good as the UK and USA even. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Nov 2015 2.05pm) Denmark - centre right 2015 So really heavily left then... As for most content, they all have higher suicide rates than the UK.
And none of them are borderline socialist in the first place, you've just decided that they are to suit your argument.
Optimistic as ever |
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Nov 15 4.39pm | |
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Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 4.25pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.14pm
P Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 2.23pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 2.04pm
The most content, best run countries in the world are mostly borderline Socialist with a bit of healthy capitalism thrown in: Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Norway. The usual suspects. S'funny how that lot aren't repulsed by aspects of leftism and yet are pretty successful at 'society'. If only they would listen to the deep thinking, rational, anti-left ranters on here the could do it so much better. As good as the UK and USA even. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Nov 2015 2.05pm) Denmark - centre right 2015 So really heavily left then... As for most content, they all have higher suicide rates than the UK.
And none of them are borderline socialist in the first place, you've just decided that they are to suit your argument.
Nicking my "borderline" line the git. And that Madonna can fvck right off too.
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Stuk Top half 05 Nov 15 4.56pm | |
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Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.39pm
Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 4.25pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.14pm
P Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 2.23pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 2.04pm
The most content, best run countries in the world are mostly borderline Socialist with a bit of healthy capitalism thrown in: Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Norway. The usual suspects. S'funny how that lot aren't repulsed by aspects of leftism and yet are pretty successful at 'society'. If only they would listen to the deep thinking, rational, anti-left ranters on here the could do it so much better. As good as the UK and USA even. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Nov 2015 2.05pm) Denmark - centre right 2015 So really heavily left then... As for most content, they all have higher suicide rates than the UK.
And none of them are borderline socialist in the first place, you've just decided that they are to suit your argument.
Nicking my "borderline" line the git. And that Madonna can fvck right off too. A) So what if he has. Doesn't make either of you correct, and as an American he'd think the UK is a borderline socialist country. B) That's nearly 5 years old and before all of those general elections. C) The real answer for the happiest country is Costa Rica, I believe.
Optimistic as ever |
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Nov 15 5.03pm | |
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And Costa Rica has a socialist party in power. How confusing is this?
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chris123 hove actually 05 Nov 15 5.12pm | |
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Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 4.56pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.39pm
Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 4.25pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.14pm
P Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 2.23pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 2.04pm
The most content, best run countries in the world are mostly borderline Socialist with a bit of healthy capitalism thrown in: Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Norway. The usual suspects. S'funny how that lot aren't repulsed by aspects of leftism and yet are pretty successful at 'society'. If only they would listen to the deep thinking, rational, anti-left ranters on here the could do it so much better. As good as the UK and USA even. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Nov 2015 2.05pm) Denmark - centre right 2015 So really heavily left then... As for most content, they all have higher suicide rates than the UK.
And none of them are borderline socialist in the first place, you've just decided that they are to suit your argument.
Nicking my "borderline" line the git. And that Madonna can fvck right off too. A) So what if he has. Doesn't make either of you correct, and as an American he'd think the UK is a borderline socialist country. B) That's nearly 5 years old and before all of those general elections. C) The real answer for the happiest country is Costa Rica, I believe.
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matt_himself Matataland 05 Nov 15 5.46pm | |
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Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.39pm
Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 4.25pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.14pm
P Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 2.23pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 2.04pm
The most content, best run countries in the world are mostly borderline Socialist with a bit of healthy capitalism thrown in: Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Norway. The usual suspects. S'funny how that lot aren't repulsed by aspects of leftism and yet are pretty successful at 'society'. If only they would listen to the deep thinking, rational, anti-left ranters on here the could do it so much better. As good as the UK and USA even. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Nov 2015 2.05pm) Denmark - centre right 2015 So really heavily left then... As for most content, they all have higher suicide rates than the UK.
And none of them are borderline socialist in the first place, you've just decided that they are to suit your argument.
Nicking my "borderline" line the git. And that Madonna can fvck right off too. Do you agree with the author when he implies that the 'happiest countries in the world' are those that are the least ethnically diverse? I guess you'd know, living in a white only community and all...
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Nov 15 7.07pm | |
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Quote matt_himself at 05 Nov 2015 5.46pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.39pm
Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 4.25pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 4.14pm
P Quote Stuk at 05 Nov 2015 2.23pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Nov 2015 2.04pm
The most content, best run countries in the world are mostly borderline Socialist with a bit of healthy capitalism thrown in: Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Norway. The usual suspects. S'funny how that lot aren't repulsed by aspects of leftism and yet are pretty successful at 'society'. If only they would listen to the deep thinking, rational, anti-left ranters on here the could do it so much better. As good as the UK and USA even. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Nov 2015 2.05pm) Denmark - centre right 2015 So really heavily left then... As for most content, they all have higher suicide rates than the UK.
And none of them are borderline socialist in the first place, you've just decided that they are to suit your argument.
Nicking my "borderline" line the git. And that Madonna can fvck right off too. Do you agree with the author when he implies that the 'happiest countries in the world' are those that are the least ethnically diverse? I guess you'd know, living in a white only community and all...
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