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sydtheeagle England 04 Aug 15 9.36pm | |
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Quote Jaha at 04 Aug 2015 9.17pm
I know he is not an impact sub, but I struggle to see another striker who we had in the team last year who could do that job. Also, I struggle to see what campbell offers to the team that means we don't need gayle. Yes he bullies defences, but that can't be used to mask the fact that he isn't really a premier league quality striker. Murray is a fantastic striker with a brilliant footballing brain as many have already stated, but clearly, he is getting on and it dosent look like he's going to be our first choice striker, and isn't much of an impact player. Gayle has the pace and ability to open a game when things are becoming flat, and is widely quoted as the best finisher at the club. I believe that he still has a place in the squad, and for certain oppositions with not so well drilled defences, I think he will be in the right place at the right time to get a goal. With improved midfield talent in yohan, I can see him getting on the end of more and more through balls, and if he's got the chance, he will put it in the back of the net. Then again I'm sure wickham is an informed choice and could prove to be both Glenn Murray and gayle rolled into one. Although, I think it will take time. 0 goals in 14 appearances as a sub last season means that while we may have no one better than Gayle for the role of impact sub, we also could not possibly have anyone worse. Bottom line that is that Campbell or Murray could only do as badly in the role. But they couldn't produce less (than zero). Gayle may have pace but, off the bench, he certainly didn't use it to open up games (largely because fast or not, he's not a Premier League standard footballer.) Our real problem last season, and I think in part both Cabaye and Mutch were brought in to address it, is that Zaha and Bolasie both punch below their weight when it comes to scoring goals (in fact, we don't score many from midfield full stop) and this throws the lack of goals from our strikers into relief. It means defenders can focus on the forwards and give the midfielders and wide players a little less attention, not fearing that they're goal threats. If Zaha, Bolasie and Cabaye score 7 or 8 each this season, I guarantee our top scoring forward will get at least 5 more than last season. I think Gayle will be moved on (sale or loan). He'll be moved on for all the reasons highlighted on the last couple of pages of this thread. He's not good enough for this level. If he was, as team without a free-scoring forward, we wouldn't be selling him (and we wouldn't have recruited Bamford and/or Wickham to replace him.) I couldn't care less what people here think of Gayle (I know many love him); I trust the professionals (Pardew/Millen/etc.) to make the right judgement. And it seems they're making it.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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ben_west1312 Croydon 04 Aug 15 11.33pm | |
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1. Mitroglu is dog s***e
CPFC |
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OldFella London 04 Aug 15 11.56pm | |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 04 Aug 2015 9.36pm
Quote Jaha at 04 Aug 2015 9.17pm
I know he is not an impact sub, but I struggle to see another striker who we had in the team last year who could do that job. Also, I struggle to see what campbell offers to the team that means we don't need gayle. Yes he bullies defences, but that can't be used to mask the fact that he isn't really a premier league quality striker. Murray is a fantastic striker with a brilliant footballing brain as many have already stated, but clearly, he is getting on and it dosent look like he's going to be our first choice striker, and isn't much of an impact player. Gayle has the pace and ability to open a game when things are becoming flat, and is widely quoted as the best finisher at the club. I believe that he still has a place in the squad, and for certain oppositions with not so well drilled defences, I think he will be in the right place at the right time to get a goal. With improved midfield talent in yohan, I can see him getting on the end of more and more through balls, and if he's got the chance, he will put it in the back of the net. Then again I'm sure wickham is an informed choice and could prove to be both Glenn Murray and gayle rolled into one. Although, I think it will take time. 0 goals in 14 appearances as a sub last season means that while we may have no one better than Gayle for the role of impact sub, we also could not possibly have anyone worse. Bottom line that is that Campbell or Murray could only do as badly in the role. But they couldn't produce less (than zero). Gayle may have pace but, off the bench, he certainly didn't use it to open up games (largely because fast or not, he's not a Premier League standard footballer.) Our real problem last season, and I think in part both Cabaye and Mutch were brought in to address it, is that Zaha and Bolasie both punch below their weight when it comes to scoring goals (in fact, we don't score many from midfield full stop) and this throws the lack of goals from our strikers into relief. It means defenders can focus on the forwards and give the midfielders and wide players a little less attention, not fearing that they're goal threats. If Zaha, Bolasie and Cabaye score 7 or 8 each this season, I guarantee our top scoring forward will get at least 5 more than last season. I think Gayle will be moved on (sale or loan). He'll be moved on for all the reasons highlighted on the last couple of pages of this thread. He's not good enough for this level. If he was, as team without a free-scoring forward, we wouldn't be selling him (and we wouldn't have recruited Bamford and/or Wickham to replace him.) I couldn't care less what people here think of Gayle (I know many love him); I trust the professionals (Pardew/Millen/etc.) to make the right judgement. And it seems they're making it. Sorry fellow HOL'ers if I appear sycophantic, but Syd (who I have never met) is again absolutely spot on here. There is some real nonsense on this site about DG - time to move on and upgrade, imho.
Jackson.. Wan Bissaka.... Sansom.. Nicholas.. Cannon.. Guehi.... Zaha... Thomas.. Byrne... Holton.. Rogers.. that should do it.. |
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Jaha 05 Aug 15 2.23am | |
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Quote OldFella at 04 Aug 2015 11.56pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 04 Aug 2015 9.36pm
Quote Jaha at 04 Aug 2015 9.17pm
I know he is not an impact sub, but I struggle to see another striker who we had in the team last year who could do that job. Also, I struggle to see what campbell offers to the team that means we don't need gayle. Yes he bullies defences, but that can't be used to mask the fact that he isn't really a premier league quality striker. Murray is a fantastic striker with a brilliant footballing brain as many have already stated, but clearly, he is getting on and it dosent look like he's going to be our first choice striker, and isn't much of an impact player. Gayle has the pace and ability to open a game when things are becoming flat, and is widely quoted as the best finisher at the club. I believe that he still has a place in the squad, and for certain oppositions with not so well drilled defences, I think he will be in the right place at the right time to get a goal. With improved midfield talent in yohan, I can see him getting on the end of more and more through balls, and if he's got the chance, he will put it in the back of the net. Then again I'm sure wickham is an informed choice and could prove to be both Glenn Murray and gayle rolled into one. Although, I think it will take time. 0 goals in 14 appearances as a sub last season means that while we may have no one better than Gayle for the role of impact sub, we also could not possibly have anyone worse. Bottom line that is that Campbell or Murray could only do as badly in the role. But they couldn't produce less (than zero). Gayle may have pace but, off the bench, he certainly didn't use it to open up games (largely because fast or not, he's not a Premier League standard footballer.) Our real problem last season, and I think in part both Cabaye and Mutch were brought in to address it, is that Zaha and Bolasie both punch below their weight when it comes to scoring goals (in fact, we don't score many from midfield full stop) and this throws the lack of goals from our strikers into relief. It means defenders can focus on the forwards and give the midfielders and wide players a little less attention, not fearing that they're goal threats. If Zaha, Bolasie and Cabaye score 7 or 8 each this season, I guarantee our top scoring forward will get at least 5 more than last season. I think Gayle will be moved on (sale or loan). He'll be moved on for all the reasons highlighted on the last couple of pages of this thread. He's not good enough for this level. If he was, as team without a free-scoring forward, we wouldn't be selling him (and we wouldn't have recruited Bamford and/or Wickham to replace him.) I couldn't care less what people here think of Gayle (I know many love him); I trust the professionals (Pardew/Millen/etc.) to make the right judgement. And it seems they're making it. Sorry fellow HOL'ers if I appear sycophantic, but Syd (who I have never met) is again absolutely spot on here. There is some real nonsense on this site about DG - time to move on and upgrade, imho. I'd rather play gayle up front than campbell, that said, if wickham was to go on and score 15 goals this season, I would probably forget all about dwight! In the circumstances we find ourselves in, we are actually able to hold onto players and buy upgrades, so the need to trail and error players is less. Players like gayle with potential can't slowly develop in this league like they could in the championship. So maybe he should go on loan. However I still think we would be in a tricky situation if the goals dried up
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Spiderman Horsham 05 Aug 15 7.34am | |
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Quote Jaha at 05 Aug 2015 2.23am
Quote OldFella at 04 Aug 2015 11.56pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 04 Aug 2015 9.36pm
Quote Jaha at 04 Aug 2015 9.17pm
I know he is not an impact sub, but I struggle to see another striker who we had in the team last year who could do that job. Also, I struggle to see what campbell offers to the team that means we don't need gayle. Yes he bullies defences, but that can't be used to mask the fact that he isn't really a premier league quality striker. Murray is a fantastic striker with a brilliant footballing brain as many have already stated, but clearly, he is getting on and it dosent look like he's going to be our first choice striker, and isn't much of an impact player. Gayle has the pace and ability to open a game when things are becoming flat, and is widely quoted as the best finisher at the club. I believe that he still has a place in the squad, and for certain oppositions with not so well drilled defences, I think he will be in the right place at the right time to get a goal. With improved midfield talent in yohan, I can see him getting on the end of more and more through balls, and if he's got the chance, he will put it in the back of the net. Then again I'm sure wickham is an informed choice and could prove to be both Glenn Murray and gayle rolled into one. Although, I think it will take time. 0 goals in 14 appearances as a sub last season means that while we may have no one better than Gayle for the role of impact sub, we also could not possibly have anyone worse. Bottom line that is that Campbell or Murray could only do as badly in the role. But they couldn't produce less (than zero). Gayle may have pace but, off the bench, he certainly didn't use it to open up games (largely because fast or not, he's not a Premier League standard footballer.) Our real problem last season, and I think in part both Cabaye and Mutch were brought in to address it, is that Zaha and Bolasie both punch below their weight when it comes to scoring goals (in fact, we don't score many from midfield full stop) and this throws the lack of goals from our strikers into relief. It means defenders can focus on the forwards and give the midfielders and wide players a little less attention, not fearing that they're goal threats. If Zaha, Bolasie and Cabaye score 7 or 8 each this season, I guarantee our top scoring forward will get at least 5 more than last season. I think Gayle will be moved on (sale or loan). He'll be moved on for all the reasons highlighted on the last couple of pages of this thread. He's not good enough for this level. If he was, as team without a free-scoring forward, we wouldn't be selling him (and we wouldn't have recruited Bamford and/or Wickham to replace him.) I couldn't care less what people here think of Gayle (I know many love him); I trust the professionals (Pardew/Millen/etc.) to make the right judgement. And it seems they're making it. Sorry fellow HOL'ers if I appear sycophantic, but Syd (who I have never met) is again absolutely spot on here. There is some real nonsense on this site about DG - time to move on and upgrade, imho. I'd rather play gayle up front than campbell, that said, if wickham was to go on and score 15 goals this season, I would probably forget all about dwight! In the circumstances we find ourselves in, we are actually able to hold onto players and buy upgrades, so the need to trail and error players is less. Players like gayle with potential can't slowly develop in this league like they could in the championship. So maybe he should go on loan. However I still think we would be in a tricky situation if the goals dried up[/quote]
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Plane Bromley 05 Aug 15 7.45am | |
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Quote OldFella at 04 Aug 2015 11.56pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 04 Aug 2015 9.36pm
Quote Jaha at 04 Aug 2015 9.17pm
I know he is not an impact sub, but I struggle to see another striker who we had in the team last year who could do that job. Also, I struggle to see what campbell offers to the team that means we don't need gayle. Yes he bullies defences, but that can't be used to mask the fact that he isn't really a premier league quality striker. Murray is a fantastic striker with a brilliant footballing brain as many have already stated, but clearly, he is getting on and it dosent look like he's going to be our first choice striker, and isn't much of an impact player. Gayle has the pace and ability to open a game when things are becoming flat, and is widely quoted as the best finisher at the club. I believe that he still has a place in the squad, and for certain oppositions with not so well drilled defences, I think he will be in the right place at the right time to get a goal. With improved midfield talent in yohan, I can see him getting on the end of more and more through balls, and if he's got the chance, he will put it in the back of the net. Then again I'm sure wickham is an informed choice and could prove to be both Glenn Murray and gayle rolled into one. Although, I think it will take time. 0 goals in 14 appearances as a sub last season means that while we may have no one better than Gayle for the role of impact sub, we also could not possibly have anyone worse. Bottom line that is that Campbell or Murray could only do as badly in the role. But they couldn't produce less (than zero). Gayle may have pace but, off the bench, he certainly didn't use it to open up games (largely because fast or not, he's not a Premier League standard footballer.) Our real problem last season, and I think in part both Cabaye and Mutch were brought in to address it, is that Zaha and Bolasie both punch below their weight when it comes to scoring goals (in fact, we don't score many from midfield full stop) and this throws the lack of goals from our strikers into relief. It means defenders can focus on the forwards and give the midfielders and wide players a little less attention, not fearing that they're goal threats. If Zaha, Bolasie and Cabaye score 7 or 8 each this season, I guarantee our top scoring forward will get at least 5 more than last season. I think Gayle will be moved on (sale or loan). He'll be moved on for all the reasons highlighted on the last couple of pages of this thread. He's not good enough for this level. If he was, as team without a free-scoring forward, we wouldn't be selling him (and we wouldn't have recruited Bamford and/or Wickham to replace him.) I couldn't care less what people here think of Gayle (I know many love him); I trust the professionals (Pardew/Millen/etc.) to make the right judgement. And it seems they're making it. Sorry fellow HOL'ers if I appear sycophantic, but Syd (who I have never met) is again absolutely spot on here. There is some real nonsense on this site about DG - time to move on and upgrade, imho.
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Andy_G Wimbledon 05 Aug 15 7.49am | |
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He offers nothing with his back to goal and generally only a threat in the box. He will probably do well for another team who play more to his strengths but I can't see him playing much here. Palace fans are struggling with the 'selling of players they like' it's the premier league upgrade or fight relegation.
The ups and downs of Palace have left me older than my years |
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sydtheeagle England 05 Aug 15 8.28am | |
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Quote Jaha at 05 Aug 2015 2.23am
However I still think we would be in a tricky situation if the goals dried up Leaving Gayle aside and addressing this question, I think the threat of the "goals drying up" is vastly less likely than it was 12 months ago (which makes forward depth much less of a worry, on top of which with the arrival of Bamford and Wickham, our forwards have been improved anyway). Why do I think this? 1. With the arrival of Cabaye and Mutch we have two players who have consistently scored goals from central midfield. A year ago, this was not the case. It's entirely reasonable to think between those two we will get 10 goals this season, where a year ago we might have hoped for two or three from the same "shirt". 2. Pards has stated, and worked on in training, that he expects Yala and Wilf to both take more responsibility for scoring this season, far more so than in the past. If their performances towards the end of last season where, generally, they improved dramatically in this area of the game, continues to trend upwards then we ought also be able to expect ten to fifteen goals between those two. A year ago, we might have hoped for half that. Plus, we've got Chung on the wing, who is also a scoring threat. 3. With Cabaye and Mutch firing as well as the threat from Wilf and Yala now looking for goals, defenders will no longer be able to sit back and double up on our forwards. They'll have to stretch themselves and cover our midfielders too. This, inevitably, will create space in the box making it far more likely our forwards will increase their quota of goals, whoever plays. In short, when you're a centre forward and you have Cabaye behind you, your job becomes easier. Defenders will sit back and let Ledley or Jedi take a shot while focusing on the forward they're marking. They won't do that with Cabaye, thereby freeing the forward up. 4. Chammy and Campbell are, touch wood, highly unlikely to be as injury plagued as they were last season. Fit and firing, in Chammy, Wickham and Bamford (not to mention Muzza and Campbell) we have far more forwards capable of scoring Premiership goals than we did twelve months ago. 5. Our tactics under Pardew stress creating chances and scoring goals far more than they ever did under Colin or Pulis. That alone helps. I'm not saying we'll be a free-scoring team this year but I would be surprised if the "goals drying up" was a serious problem. We are team with goals in us from pretty much all areas of the park.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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sydtheeagle England 05 Aug 15 8.30am | |
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Quote Plane at 05 Aug 2015 7.45am
W@nker alert Coming from someone who's gone so far as to stalk me (yep, gentlemen, he even went so far as to insult me by Private Message) this sort of contribution is entirely in character. The bitter small-mindedness of some people never ceases to amuse me.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 05 Aug 15 9.48am | |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 05 Aug 2015 8.28am
Quote Jaha at 05 Aug 2015 2.23am
However I still think we would be in a tricky situation if the goals dried up Leaving Gayle aside and addressing this question, I think the threat of the "goals drying up" is vastly less likely than it was 12 months ago (which makes forward depth much less of a worry, on top of which with the arrival of Bamford and Wickham, our forwards have been improved anyway). Why do I think this? 1. With the arrival of Cabaye and Mutch we have two players who have consistently scored goals from central midfield. A year ago, this was not the case. It's entirely reasonable to think between those two we will get 10 goals this season, where a year ago we might have hoped for two or three from the same "shirt". 2. Pards has stated, and worked on in training, that he expects Yala and Wilf to both take more responsibility for scoring this season, far more so than in the past. If their performances towards the end of last season where, generally, they improved dramatically in this area of the game, continues to trend upwards then we ought also be able to expect ten to fifteen goals between those two. A year ago, we might have hoped for half that. Plus, we've got Chung on the wing, who is also a scoring threat. 3. With Cabaye and Mutch firing as well as the threat from Wilf and Yala now looking for goals, defenders will no longer be able to sit back and double up on our forwards. They'll have to stretch themselves and cover our midfielders too. This, inevitably, will create space in the box making it far more likely our forwards will increase their quota of goals, whoever plays. In short, when you're a centre forward and you have Cabaye behind you, your job becomes easier. Defenders will sit back and let Ledley or Jedi take a shot while focusing on the forward they're marking. They won't do that with Cabaye, thereby freeing the forward up. 4. Chammy and Campbell are, touch wood, highly unlikely to be as injury plagued as they were last season. Fit and firing, in Chammy, Wickham and Bamford (not to mention Muzza and Campbell) we have far more forwards capable of scoring Premiership goals than we did twelve months ago. 5. Our tactics under Pardew stress creating chances and scoring goals far more than they ever did under Colin or Pulis. That alone helps. I'm not saying we'll be a free-scoring team this year but I would be surprised if the "goals drying up" was a serious problem. We are team with goals in us from pretty much all areas of the park. Agree with that - I think our 'problem' this season may well be more keeping them out !
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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Jaha 05 Aug 15 10.23am | |
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Quote The Sash at 05 Aug 2015 9.48am
Quote sydtheeagle at 05 Aug 2015 8.28am
Quote Jaha at 05 Aug 2015 2.23am
However I still think we would be in a tricky situation if the goals dried up Leaving Gayle aside and addressing this question, I think the threat of the "goals drying up" is vastly less likely than it was 12 months ago (which makes forward depth much less of a worry, on top of which with the arrival of Bamford and Wickham, our forwards have been improved anyway). Why do I think this? 1. With the arrival of Cabaye and Mutch we have two players who have consistently scored goals from central midfield. A year ago, this was not the case. It's entirely reasonable to think between those two we will get 10 goals this season, where a year ago we might have hoped for two or three from the same "shirt". 2. Pards has stated, and worked on in training, that he expects Yala and Wilf to both take more responsibility for scoring this season, far more so than in the past. If their performances towards the end of last season where, generally, they improved dramatically in this area of the game, continues to trend upwards then we ought also be able to expect ten to fifteen goals between those two. A year ago, we might have hoped for half that. Plus, we've got Chung on the wing, who is also a scoring threat. 3. With Cabaye and Mutch firing as well as the threat from Wilf and Yala now looking for goals, defenders will no longer be able to sit back and double up on our forwards. They'll have to stretch themselves and cover our midfielders too. This, inevitably, will create space in the box making it far more likely our forwards will increase their quota of goals, whoever plays. In short, when you're a centre forward and you have Cabaye behind you, your job becomes easier. Defenders will sit back and let Ledley or Jedi take a shot while focusing on the forward they're marking. They won't do that with Cabaye, thereby freeing the forward up. 4. Chammy and Campbell are, touch wood, highly unlikely to be as injury plagued as they were last season. Fit and firing, in Chammy, Wickham and Bamford (not to mention Muzza and Campbell) we have far more forwards capable of scoring Premiership goals than we did twelve months ago. 5. Our tactics under Pardew stress creating chances and scoring goals far more than they ever did under Colin or Pulis. That alone helps. I'm not saying we'll be a free-scoring team this year but I would be surprised if the "goals drying up" was a serious problem. We are team with goals in us from pretty much all areas of the park. Agree with that - I think our 'problem' this season may well be more keeping them out ! I think you might be right! Hopefully the next one we bring in will be a CB
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sa_eagle Just outside Cape Town 05 Aug 15 10.39am | |
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I'm finding all this speculation about 'this player or that player' leaving quite amusing given that no one (other than a few loans) has left since those that were released at the end of last season. What I think is becoming clear is that we are no longer a selling club, but rather one that can afford a larger squad which can only be a good thing for cup competitions etc.
Cynic or realist? It's a fine line! |
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