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Ched Evans saga part ???

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black eagle. Flag south croydon. 07 Jan 15 12.32pm Send a Private Message to black eagle. Add black eagle. as a friend

Ched Evans served 2 and a half years for rape,he's victim will have to live with the rape for ever.

so for her it's a life sentence,probably still having nightmares,should he sign for Oldham attendances will drop and sponsors will no longer sponsor the latics.

Sad day for football if this piece off sh!t is allowed to continue playing football.

 

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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 07 Jan 15 12.41pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

It will be interesting to see what happens with the case review.

If he has a good second half to the season (I would imagine he is going to get abuse on a level never seen or heard before) and the review finds in his favour, I can see him moving up the leagues quite quickly.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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coulsdoneagle Flag London 07 Jan 15 12.43pm Send a Private Message to coulsdoneagle Add coulsdoneagle as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jan 2015 11.20am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Jan 2015 10.58am

Quote JohnB at 07 Jan 2015 10.08am

I'm not so sure he even raped her. How can you rape someone who gives you a blowy?

He's guilty because he essentially engineered a situation where he took advantage of someone who was clearly intoxicated, with malicious intent.

Evans needs to understand that he was effectively guilty the moment the jury could prove that he knew McDonald had brought a girl home, and gained access to the hotel room (by deception) and then sneaked out (again by deception). There is no basis for him to assume he had informed consent due to his actions.

Funny enough, if you break into someones room, have sex with them when they drunk and then sneak out, you're a rapist.

McDonald is lucky that that they couldn't demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that his role was to procure a drunk woman.



Again Jamie, you claim certainty for events that you can't be sure of.

You assume that he raped this girl, you can't know it.

I don't personally feel the level of evidence you state is sufficient of this conviction and I think the verdict is going to change.

There are a lot of uncertainties in this case portrayed as facts.


He was sentenced. He raped her in the eyes of the law. Furthermore he has shown no remorse. I'm sure he would find a job if he came out and apologised.

 

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 07 Jan 15 12.53pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote coulsdoneagle at 07 Jan 2015 12.43pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 07 Jan 2015 11.20am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Jan 2015 10.58am

Quote JohnB at 07 Jan 2015 10.08am

I'm not so sure he even raped her. How can you rape someone who gives you a blowy?

He's guilty because he essentially engineered a situation where he took advantage of someone who was clearly intoxicated, with malicious intent.

Evans needs to understand that he was effectively guilty the moment the jury could prove that he knew McDonald had brought a girl home, and gained access to the hotel room (by deception) and then sneaked out (again by deception). There is no basis for him to assume he had informed consent due to his actions.

Funny enough, if you break into someones room, have sex with them when they drunk and then sneak out, you're a rapist.

McDonald is lucky that that they couldn't demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that his role was to procure a drunk woman.



Again Jamie, you claim certainty for events that you can't be sure of.

You assume that he raped this girl, you can't know it.

I don't personally feel the level of evidence you state is sufficient of this conviction and I think the verdict is going to change.

There are a lot of uncertainties in this case portrayed as facts.


He was sentenced. He raped her in the eyes of the law. Furthermore he has shown no remorse. I'm sure he would find a job if he came out and apologised.


His case is being looked into by the Criminal Case Review Board which unless it was a stone banker wouldn't be happening if the eyes of the law were entirely satisfied.

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 07 Jan 15 12.58pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote black eagle. at 07 Jan 2015 12.32pm

Ched Evans served 2 and a half years for rape,he's victim will have to live with the rape for ever.

so for her it's a life sentence,probably still having nightmares,should he sign for Oldham attendances will drop and sponsors will no longer sponsor the latics.

Sad day for football if this piece off sh!t is allowed to continue playing football.

Is he a piece of sh*t if he is actually innocent or has a favourable case review though???

The problem with rape cases such as this is you have one drunk party claiming consensual sex and one drunken party claiming rape - physical evidence is very thin on the ground so its essentially down to a group of 12 member of the general public picking their favourite of two stories.

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 07 Jan 15 12.58pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend



Again Jamie, you claim certainty for events that you can't be sure of.

You assume that he raped this girl, you can't know it.

I don't personally feel the level of evidence you state is sufficient of this conviction and I think the verdict is going to change.

There are a lot of uncertainties in this case portrayed as facts.


He was sentenced. He raped her in the eyes of the law. Furthermore he has shown no remorse. I'm sure he would find a job if he came out and apologised.


His case is being looked into by the Criminal Case Review Board which unless it was a stone banker wouldn't be happening if the eyes of the law were entirely satisfied.


Or the eyes of the law think there is so much public interest they had no choice. He has already been refused leave to appeal, so you would think this was a pretty tight case.

And by the way, I for one have never considered a BJ as an open invitation for a full-on f*ck. Some girls give them because they don't want to go the whole way.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jan 15 12.59pm

Quote lil j-eagle at 07 Jan 2015 12.31pm


that's not what I meant. On the scale of rape, it isnt as bad as other rapes (hence the 5 year sentence rather than life), but is still obviously horrific and punishable by jail. And there was enoguh evidence to prove he is guilty and I'm fine with that, but when it is one person's word against the other, there will always be an element of doubt. Even if there is enough evidence to convict them, there will still be a tiny element of doubt.

Dodgy ground to get into, the idea that some types of crime are morally more acceptable than other crimes of the same category. Rape is rape, sentencing is much more along lines of rehabilition and social protection than the crime itself.

Beyond reasonable doubt is the key word of criminal justice.

Importantly, the evidence required to convict Evans came from his own admission of having sex with the girl and his activities prior to the event and after.


 


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Kingvagabond Flag London 07 Jan 15 1.11pm Send a Private Message to Kingvagabond Add Kingvagabond as a friend

I struggle with the conviction myself having read everything available to be read (and no not just chedevans.com). Is Ched Evans a scumbag? Without doubt. Is he a rapist? Well he has been convicted of it by a jury of his peers. Will his conviction be quashed? Possibly. Will the petitions then count as criminal harassment? Possibly.

 


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Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am

He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jan 15 1.12pm


I think that its reasonable to accept that he engaged in sexual conduct with the victim without her consent, due to her intoxication, and that his actions before and after made it unreasonable to assume that consent was granted.

Unless you think its 'reasonable' to turn up to a hotel room, after your friend has texted you that he's gone back with a drunk girl, obtain the key by deception from the night porter while your friends wait outside in the car, enter the room, engage in sexual activity with said drunk girl, and then attempt to leave the premises via a back door to avoid cameras.

Where as McDonald had sex with a woman he had spent the night drinking with, and had come home with him - its reasonable to assume he believed he had valid consent by the actions involved.

Evans' defence and appeals seem to generally be around issues around the case, rather than those necessary for his conviction (reasonable to accept she was drunk, that she had no prior contact with Evans, and that at the time of sexual activity was incapable of giving consent through intoxication).

What I believe is that McDonald and Evans planned this ahead of time, that McDonald would procure the girl, ply her with drinks and then notify Evans so that he could join in - McDonalds role was to get her too drunk to remember.

It would be a travesty of justice to overturn the conviction unless they could prove that Evans wasn't there or that the girl was not sufficiently intoxicated.

By his own words he stated to the police, under oath that he had sex with her, and the Night Manager specifically stated that Evans told him to take care of the drunk girl in that room (so he clearly was aware of how drunk she was).

Arguably by his own words he's a rapist.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (07 Jan 2015 1.13pm)

Edited by jamiemartin721 (07 Jan 2015 1.20pm)

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jan 15 1.19pm

Quote Kingvagabond at 07 Jan 2015 1.11pm

I struggle with the conviction myself having read everything available to be read (and no not just chedevans.com). Is Ched Evans a scumbag? Without doubt. Is he a rapist? Well he has been convicted of it by a jury of his peers. Will his conviction be quashed? Possibly. Will the petitions then count as criminal harassment? Possibly.

Ok, for it to be rape a number of factors are required.

1) Sex occurred
2) Consent was not given by the victim or the victim was rendered incapable of giving consent
3) If the victim is rendered incapable of giving consent then the defendant can avoid conviction if they can be said to have reasonable grounds for believing consent was given.

So if you spend the evening with a girl drinking, and go back with her, even if she's to drunk to consent when you have sex, it can be said to be reasonable by her actions, to assume you had consent (providing she didn't refuse - where as if you just took home a girl you met outside a club who was really drunk you might be in trouble).

Evans admits sex, the prosecution showed she was intoxicated, Evans knew she was drunk and her actions prior to sex gave him no reasonable grounds to assume consent.


 


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Sg Bilko Flag Deurne Holland 07 Jan 15 1.20pm Send a Private Message to Sg Bilko Add Sg Bilko as a friend

Quote OknotOK at 07 Jan 2015 10.37am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 07 Jan 2015 10.30am

I'm with Ian J and Sash etc.

Evans is no worse than other offenders that have been allowed back in to play..... how many times has Joey Barton offended?

You cannot have arbitrary rules applied on emotive feelings.

Either all offenders are banned or not at all.

I am also not convinced about the safety of the Ched Evans' verdict either.

I don't know of many that have actually called seriously for him to be banned. They have just said they don't want him playing for their club.

And clubs have to weigh up the potential gains (playing side only as far as I can see) against the potential damage (financial, reputational) of employing him.

I wouldn't want him playing for our club. And I suspect a lot of fans and sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with a club that does employ him. There's no ban involved. It is the free market working.

That's all bullsqirt, 160,000 signed a partition with Sheff U, Sheff U don't have 160,000 supporters they are struggling to average 20,000 for home games, so how can 160,000 so called supporters sign a partition.

Personally I know nothing about the case, but if he's done his time, he's paid for his crime, and should therefore be able to return to his work, and how twofaced are those same Sheff U supporters, Ched Evans mustn't play for them but Marlon Harewood did, and he has a record going back to the late 90s including Sexual assault.


Edited by Sg Bilko (07 Jan 2015 1.42pm)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jan 15 1.21pm

Quote The Sash at 07 Jan 2015 12.58pm

Quote black eagle. at 07 Jan 2015 12.32pm

Ched Evans served 2 and a half years for rape,he's victim will have to live with the rape for ever.

so for her it's a life sentence,probably still having nightmares,should he sign for Oldham attendances will drop and sponsors will no longer sponsor the latics.

Sad day for football if this piece off sh!t is allowed to continue playing football.

Is he a piece of sh*t if he is actually innocent or has a favourable case review though???

The problem with rape cases such as this is you have one drunk party claiming consensual sex and one drunken party claiming rape - physical evidence is very thin on the ground so its essentially down to a group of 12 member of the general public picking their favourite of two stories.


Still a piece of sh*t given he obtain a key card to get into a room where his friend was having sex with a girl so that he could have sex with her.

 


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