Everyone always says that, and I'm not necessarily disputing it, but is there incontrovertable evidence that we'd have lost the second world war without the Yanks?

Goodness is what you do. Not who you pray to.

Well, for a start: Britain would have starved without them. They provided us with food, oil, and equipment even before they joined the war. Their shipping kept this island nation going. They were attacking uboats before they started officially fighting, in order to help us. Furthermore, they supplied almost all of Russia's logistic equipment (lorries, jeeps etc). Without these Russia could not have moved their armies around. In addition, they supplied most of the aircraft and tanks used by the western Allies, as well as thousands for Russia.

I could go on. Money, the Marshall Plan etc...

Today, America is by far the largest aid donor on the planet. What they give, dwarfs what the whole of the European Union does. Yet so many people in Europe complain that America does not do enough. I would like to see Europeans pull their weight, before they start criticizing the USA for almost everything it does.

They wouldnt have beaten us, look....

... I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our Island home, to ride out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone.

At any rate, that is what we are going to try to do. That is the resolve of His Majesty's Government-every man of them. That is the will of Parliament and the nation.

The British Empire and the French Republic, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength.

Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail.

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

F*ck you, f*ck you very much!!

We were, Bexter. Then you made a comment about the USA and GB arming Saddam. I responded to that, and I note that you have not argued my points. Then others took the subject along. And your comments suggest that you think that the comments about WWII might have been apt.

As regards America's poisoning of the planet: you again fall victim to lack of knowledge. America is the biggest user of energy per-capita. If we are talking of carbon-monoxide pollution alone, then America is the worst per-capita. However, if we take heavy metals then the former Soviet bloc and China are world leaders. America is not responsible for over half of the worlds pollutants. We in Europe are not exactly innocent either. Where do you think the last two hundred years of pollution damage has come from? Europe was industrialising before anywhere else. We've been chopping down and burning forests for thousands of years. So whatever, America's ills and there are a few my point remains that we in Europe should get our own house in order, and then point the finger. But not just at the USA.

Theres Terrorists and then theres Terrorists.

First and foremost its good news that we have finally captured Saddam he deserves every bit of punishment he gets but here is my view on the whole thing.

I will always see this war with Iraq as a bit of a phoney war it has nothing to do with the freedom of the Iraqi people it has nothing to do with the security of the world, The war on terror and it certainly has nothing to do with ''The freedom of america.''

America was clearly reeling from the sept 11 attacks and has so far ultimately failed in capturing Osama Bin Laden and bringing down the Al Qaida terror network which he supports.
Add to this the most hi tech army in the world invading a country like afghanistan and going from cave to cave capturing & butchering People of all ages, add to this the countless amount of friendly fire incidents between their own troops and that of their allies plus the whole Illegal shambles of the so called terrorists at Guatanamo bay or Camp Xray or whatever you want to call it, Its looks pretty embarassing for the bush regime, although the majority of americans will always back the president blindly it is clear that unless OBL was captured or killed with conclusive evidence this invasion of Afghanistan would be seen as a failure.

So the United States needed an old enemy someone who wouldnt back down, someone they could defeat easily and who else other than Saddam Hussein was there - He fits the bill perfectly notorious hater of the usa a nasty piece of work in his own right and stacks of history between him and bush senior so the scene was set Bush had decided if he was to win the next election the key to this was the so called Liberation of the Iraqi people and to bring down the butcher of baghdad.

I was in the states when the Illegal invasion of Iraq started news reports would flood in on channels like Fox with the stars and stripes proudly displayed everywhere heroic music being played in the background as a reporter would give the detailing of the kit a us marine would be using all a bit of a commodity if you ask me but it seemed to work ironically even all the Mcdonalds in the usa had posters in the windows supporting the united states war on terror.

Reports would flood in of another bomb going astray from its target so called american military experts hiding back in the usa would be interviewed about these the reaction always the same ''hell that doesnt even look like a crater one of our bombs would leave, Its gotta be an Iraqi trick''
The woman who was captured I forget her name now but how it was portrayed in the states that she had been kidnapped she had been tortured and raped and so on when in truth she was taken from an unguarded hospital where she was cared for and none of the above had actually happened, Its clear the american government was going to do anything it could do to make the Iraqi Army look evil they event went as far as to call it an army of terrorists hell bent on destroying America.
Admittedly the Iraqi Army didnt fight fair using human shields and so forth but are there really any rules in war? America had remember Illegally started this war and bush had stated that carpet bombing would not go on near villages but these bombs were still dropped on villages when you can stick a missile through a window from hundreds of miles away in the eyes of a desperate Iraqi army human shields and suicide bombings become quite a good tactic as its the only way your going to get near to your enemy.

All in all Saddam has been captured a defeated old man hiding in a hole.

This will not stop the attacks going on in iraq More people will die and because of this war Al Qaida will be stronger than ever as america has taken its attention away from Osama.
Saddam will never butcher anyone again and is a big morale booster for the majority of iraq and neighboring countries.

Its earnt american companies big money contracts at a time when america is sliding into recession

This I feel will win Bush the next election this is the kind of victory I feel the american people were looking for and if a handful of his own people and thousands of Iraqi's had to be sentenced to death by him then so be it the blood of this war on both sides are on his hands.

The question is who's next?
Syria
North Korea
I wouldnt even rule out Russia

One thing I dont understand is the So ''Called War on Terror''
Its not a war against a country or a specific person its a war against a particular belief something that is worth dying for - for that particular person.
Could you see George W Bush dying for his belief on terrorism somehow I doubt it.

The mountains are calling & I must go.

Ouzo, you've said what the war was nothing to do with, can you go on to tell me what you think is was to do with.

Just interested that's all.

Fair comment mate its hard to cover everything about this war on a messageboard but for me this is a simple answer for a simple man(Bush) its all about votes and its about keeping bush in the whitehouse nothing more he needed a big victory that would make news worldwide.
Its the Propaganda coup he was after this beamed back to the states is going to do wonders for him.

Although heres a Question what news network spouts out more propaganda Fox News or Al Jazeera?

Believe me fox is far worse.

The mountains are calling & I must go.