Gandhi? Iron will and a decent pleasant fellow by all accounts.

You forgot about poisonous gas in Kashmir. War crimes stuff today.

Gotta forgive him all that for beating The Hun though.

Excuse my language but what a load of utopian revolutionary liberal horse shyte. If I didn't think you meant every word, I would laugh my head off.

Churchill a mass murderer was he ? do me a favour, by the same logic so was Queen Victoria, Lord Nelson, Lord Wellington, and you may as well through Queen Elizabeth 1st and Bodicea into your cock eyed “ mass murderer” hat.

PS have you started an internship at the Grauniad.

Many of Churchills views were not unusual at the time, and held by a very large section of the populace. After 1945 everyone was suddenly 'never into all of that eugenics' stuff (they were). Or antisemetic (they were) or viewed other races as lesser (they did).

You'd be hard pressed to find many people of that era who were, without looking at the fringe 'looney lefties' of their day.

Since when has daring to criticise a prominent member of the former establishment been 'revolutionary'?

If not revolutionary then certainly anti establishment.

If we're using that rationale, surely anyone who dares to criticise Attlee, Blair etc etc is equally utopian and revolutionary, no?

Maybe unrealistic idealist would have been a better term

This attack has no liberal agenda not much . And to be honest, feel free to call me a utopian if I object to a man who freely permitted the unnecessary killing of millions of innocent lives.

Absurd claim. The real reason for the famine was the fall of Burma to the Japanese, Churchill was merely indifferent to there plight as we needed the shipping for the landings in Italy. Certainly he felt they could help themselves more, Churchill was concerned about the humanitarian catastrophe taking place there, and he pushed for whatever famine relief efforts India itself could provide; they simply weren't adequate. Something like three million people died in Bengal and other parts of southern India as a result. We might even say that Churchill indirectly broke the Bengal famine by appointing as Viceroy Field Marshal Wavell, who mobilized the military to transport food and aid to the stricken regions (something that hadn't occurred to anyone, apparently).”

I accept your argument that if I claim him to be a mass-murderer (which is perhaps a little exaggerated) I have to throw loads of leaders in to the mix, but f'ck it, we have no qualms calling Mao or Hitler a mass-murderer, and it wasn't as if they did their own dirty work.

So now Churchill is on a par with Mao and Hitler, what ever you are smoking....STOP

I'll state it one last time. I believe ALL examples of killing innocent people indefensible. If that is a particularly revolutionary, utopian and liberal viewpoint to hold, then I'll be damned if I'm not a namby panby vegan Grauniad reading PC Marxist.

In war time sh1t happens, sometimes it's very bad sh1t, but to look on those acts through peac time eyes from the comfort of 21st Century is .... well.. daft really.

I will remember namby panby vegan though for your next rant. I like it.

Edited by serial thriller (23 May 2013 3.19pm)