Yeah the left is very divided - the two camps are basically;

- Starmer is electable and will win voters from the Tories. Get behind that, get the Tories out, and then change from within.

- Starmer has lied throughout his leadership, is not remotely left-wing and has rolled back a lot of the popular policies from the 2016 manifesto - why should I vote for him?

I don't think there's a right or a wrong within that, but I can certainly understand why those who were big supporters of Corbyn's Labour are not particularly impressed with Starmer's version.

Sunak's five pledges make it clear he is prepared to be gloves off against Starmer in platitudes

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

That's because Starmer has completely cast out the left of the party - deselected popular candidates, rolled back popular policies and completely distanced himself from any sort of Corbyn legacy, as he sees this as important to winning an election.

Labour are nothing close to a left-wing party in their current form - Starmer's speech today is unveiling a 'Take Back Control' bill for goodness sake.

Of course it is - a democratic process where we pick between two different shades of the same s*** is not good for anyone.

Looking at the pledges, many of these are things that are naturally going to happen worldwide next year anyway such an inflation dropping, the economy growing following basically a couple of terrible years. So it's quite clever to say judge me of these.

To my mind the pleges he could truly change minds with are falling waiting list, and cutting illegal immigration. The fallout from covid definitely massively ramped up the former and again 2024 looks like the year where that may start to fall so that could be to his advantage if an election is called then. Sunak should take a realistic look at nurses pay, as if anyone is going to get a halfway fair wage in life it should be those tasked with keeping us healthy during a health crisis.

The illegals point could be a vote winner if Sunak finds an answer, I don't have a scooby what that could be though. Peter Hitchens on QT seemed to think that we ought to take a more serious approach with working with the French as its their beaches where this problem manifests. When push comes to shove it's out of sight out of mind, and if it's made tough enough that these people choose somewhere else it's a win politically.

The bigger issues would be why the tories and clearly massively gungho about allowing legal immigration in huge numbers, despite stating otherwise. That's what the numbers reveal, even post Brexit. Granted Labour would be no better, but it's still something that could be easily fixed but is not. Cheap labour and all that. A fixed, fair and low annual number would be a workable and fair approach, to both the us and those wanting to make a better life. That won't happen though of course.

The tories have felt no threat for a decade plus because 'at least we're not labour'. Beyond a point that does become a rather compelling reason to let them know that they shouldn't take voted for granted.

Edited by MrWhyNot (05 Jan 2023 6.15pm)

The Tories can't even dream of remodelling the NHS because all the usual Lefty morons will accuse them of trying to destroy it.
By contrast, Labour can propose change and no one says a word.

As I have said before. Until the NHS stops being a political football, it is doomed to crumble under the weight of a rapidly increasing, ageing and largely unhealthy population.