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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 28 Oct 16 8.06am | |
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Originally posted by carlonoil
Clearly! Really? In your imagination maybe.
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 28 Oct 16 8.15am | |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
Until you know for certain the nature of the 'support and assurances', that can only be speculation on your part.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Oct 16 9.45am | |
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Originally posted by carlonoil
Of course 27 other countries interests are not 'aligned with ours'. Most of our EU representatives are in UKIP and they do not 'agree with EU policy'. The aim of the EU is a United States of Europe so of course their power over member states is significant. The result of the referendum should not be a surprise as time and again we have returned UKIP MEPs in EU elections. So that would also apply to the UK, which is 4 different countries. We're a member state (rightly or wrongly) through legal democratic means and engagement with the EU. You could go down to county level, or regions. The problems of the EU have always been its 'quasi-federation' approach - but in reality it has made virtually no laws that the UK parliament hasn't then ratified before the electorate, to which UK parliament answers. Granted as a partner in an organisation, you submit to accepting that other members may have divergent views, and resolve those democratically (in the EU). This whole us vs Europe is a odd perception, because the views of those other 27 countries aren't anti-UK, their own self interest, the same as ours (except we have a veto).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Oct 16 9.49am | |
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Originally posted by Oliver
The UK tax payer to compensate Nissan if the EU imposes tariffs on car imports? I'm not really opposed to a government policy of incentives to create employment and real jobs in a area of low employment, and high social deprivation. Its what the Conservatives of the 80s failed to do - focus on replacement of real jobs into areas where industry was dying out, even if that means subsidising third parties with tax payers money (and ideally raising taxation on the new profit areas such as the housing market) to pay for that subsidisation. I may never vote Conservative - but creating real skilled jobs rather than McJobs is key to the functionality of the UK.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 28 Oct 16 10.02am | |
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British Leyland was one gigantic sinkhole into which billions were poured in order to maintain the production of vehicles hardly anyone wanted to buy. Who knows what sweeteners and guarantees Nissan were offered to set up shop in the North East in the first place? At least people actually buy their cars.
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carlonoil Naples 28 Oct 16 10.10am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
So that would also apply to the UK, which is 4 different countries. We're a member state (rightly or wrongly) through legal democratic means and engagement with the EU. You could go down to county level, or regions. The problems of the EU have always been its 'quasi-federation' approach - but in reality it has made virtually no laws that the UK parliament hasn't then ratified before the electorate, to which UK parliament answers. Granted as a partner in an organisation, you submit to accepting that other members may have divergent views, and resolve those democratically (in the EU). This whole us vs Europe is a odd perception, because the views of those other 27 countries aren't anti-UK, their own self interest, the same as ours (except we have a veto). I agree with you on the UK. That is why there are prominent nationalist parties in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is ludicrous to suggest that countries in the Balkans and the rest of Europe for that matter have the same interests as us.
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Stirlingsays 28 Oct 16 10.27am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I'm not really opposed to a government policy of incentives to create employment and real jobs in a area of low employment, and high social deprivation. Its what the Conservatives of the 80s failed to do - focus on replacement of real jobs into areas where industry was dying out, even if that means subsidising third parties with tax payers money (and ideally raising taxation on the new profit areas such as the housing market) to pay for that subsidisation. I may never vote Conservative - but creating real skilled jobs rather than McJobs is key to the functionality of the UK. Yep I agree. This is about the closest you get to nationalism.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 28 Oct 16 10.33am | |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
That's because it's a bottomless pit. Wonderful all this increase in population that the left want so much. It's really hard to get a GP. They hide the real cost of population growth by not factoring in these real costs to working class people. The ideological left of course are all for it. The English and Welsh working classes have made them pay for it....And will continue to do so, in my view. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Oct 2016 10.34am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Hoof Hearted 28 Oct 16 11.23am | |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
We've known for years why the NHS has no money and it's nowt to do with this government. Criminal waste and incompetence on the NHS part. Each trust buying medical equipment separately with huge differences between prices paid rather than buying stuff in bulk collectively to drive down cost. Some Trusts not bothering to collect what they are owed by treating overseas patients and billing the countries responsible, others not chasing up outstanding demands for payment. Very few are any good at this... because it is not their money - you wouldn't run a commercial organisation this way, giving away freebies! Drunken oafs turning up to A&E at the weekend with alcohol related injuries expecting to be treated for nothing when they have brought injuries upon themselves. People not turning up for appointments or not bothering to do physio to aid recovery. The elderly blocking beds when they could go home, but no one is there to care for them. Allowing young kids to get obese and them getting type 2 Diabetes and needing Insulin/Metformin for the rest of their lives. Allowing Scotland and Wales to have free prescriptions. Not training up enough nurses to cover shifts and then paying more than twice the normal going rate for agency staff to cover. Paying CEO's and senior staff ridiculous salaries and benefits packages and then compound this with even more generous redundancy packages when they try to get rid of them for incompetence. This list could go on.........
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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 28 Oct 16 1.21pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
That's because it's a bottomless pit. Wonderful all this increase in population that the left want so much. It's really hard to get a GP. They hide the real cost of population growth by not factoring in these real costs to working class people. The ideological left of course are all for it. The English and Welsh working classes have made them pay for it....And will continue to do so, in my view. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Oct 2016 10.34am) What has this got to do with the fact that Governments are now making deals with Ford and Nissan to bribe them to produce in the UK when before June they wee happy to do so without such bribes.
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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 28 Oct 16 1.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
We've known for years why the NHS has no money and it's nowt to do with this government. Criminal waste and incompetence on the NHS part. Each trust buying medical equipment separately with huge differences between prices paid rather than buying stuff in bulk collectively to drive down cost. Some Trusts not bothering to collect what they are owed by treating overseas patients and billing the countries responsible, others not chasing up outstanding demands for payment. Very few are any good at this... because it is not their money - you wouldn't run a commercial organisation this way, giving away freebies! Drunken oafs turning up to A&E at the weekend with alcohol related injuries expecting to be treated for nothing when they have brought injuries upon themselves. People not turning up for appointments or not bothering to do physio to aid recovery. The elderly blocking beds when they could go home, but no one is there to care for them. Allowing young kids to get obese and them getting type 2 Diabetes and needing Insulin/Metformin for the rest of their lives. Allowing Scotland and Wales to have free prescriptions. Not training up enough nurses to cover shifts and then paying more than twice the normal going rate for agency staff to cover. Paying CEO's and senior staff ridiculous salaries and benefits packages and then compound this with even more generous redundancy packages when they try to get rid of them for incompetence. This list could go on......... Most of things you describe are undoubtedly true to some extent but are at the margins of what it takes to fund the NHS. In terms of waste and incompetence it would be foolish to argue that no such waste exists but it is over decades governments of both hues have talked about savings in back office functions and at some point you exhaust most of the ways that they can be achieved. Regarding Scotland and Wales I think you will find they are paying for free prescriptions out of the grant they get for services devolved to them. If you believe in devolving services then you also need to devolve the funds to carry out these services and that involves differing choices. Free prescriptions is one such choice. The alternative is abolishing the separate parliaments.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 28 Oct 16 1.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
British Leyland was one gigantic sinkhole into which billions were poured in order to maintain the production of vehicles hardly anyone wanted to buy. Who knows what sweeteners and guarantees Nissan were offered to set up shop in the North East in the first place? At least people actually buy their cars. The Triumph Stag looked great until it blew itself to bits. There is the possibility that the low exchange rate v any trade tariffs negate some damaging effects anyway. If you can afford a BMW or Mercedes you can afford the next one down with 10% on top of the Germans or French are that silly. If you have less money and choice then maybe we could be more like the French and Germans and start buying decent stuff made in the UK rather than the old cr&p.
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