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Lombardinho London 14 Jan 21 12.08pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I read an interesting analysis of the Parler takedown last night. It seems they started to be warned by Amazon in November about the type of users and posts on the platform... even more interestingly apparently there was a 20,000+ backlog of user flagged posts for moderation. And that was then. So it had been building already and this probably was the straw that broke the camels back. This is the issue with social media of any kind it always comes down to human moderation. Even twitter and Facebook (hence your point about there still being hate content on twitter). The difference is they have tens of thousands of moderators, whereas indies like Parler and probably Gab are most likely drowning in backlogs. Although I doubt Gab care about moderation from what I've read TBH. For a platform that hosts on servers like AWS that have rules, that's game over. For Gab, it can keep going without really worrying about it as it has it's own server system. Also important to note that there are a wider range of users on twitter, facebook etc. so that sort of hate content gets diluted against normies talking dross about their cats. Parler and Gab not only have far more lax moderation rules/basically no moderation but they also have a high concentration of one type of group within their user base. That only leads to one outcome.
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Jan 21 12.21pm | |
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Originally posted by Lombardinho
Well actually it's not is it. Even Gab and Parler have/had rules, albeit lax ones, they just can't enforce them. If you actually were aware of the definition of free speech you'd understand it doesn't mean 'say what you like at any time, anywhere, without consequence'. If you do think that's what it is, then you'll always be disappointed. And, frankly, they're all part of a marketplace. They're businesses. You're free to choose a platform that doesn't have enforced rules and allows you to say anything you like unchecked. Twitter isn't government. It's a business. Don't like it? Go somewhere else. Ironically a lot of those bleating about it being heavily left biased are jumping ship to heavily right biased sites. Which is fine, it's a marketplace, your decision. And I'm not terrified at all. I just feel that if you can't create a platform that is capable of moderating itself properly, then don't be surprised at the outcome. Twitter and Facebook are the same impossible to moderate billions of tweets with a few hundred thousand moderators. That is the big issue with social media, and why we're here, talking about this. But at least they attempt to do so, and at least the content is more diverse than the above mentioned platforms. It's not the sole output. Finally, even if Twitter etc. were able to properly moderate according to their rules... you'd end up with Gab anyway, as more people would be banned, kicked off or prevented from posting vitriol. And you'd also end up with the exact opposite, a left leaning version of Gab with exactly the same content on it. So really it makes little difference. Essentially, don't post violent s*** and you'll be fine, on any platform. Problem is most people can't have a debate without resorting to it because they simply don't have the tools, so they get frustrated and reach for the bluntest one. A tool. Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Jan 2021 12.23pm)
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Lombardinho London 14 Jan 21 12.52pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Well actually it's not is it. Even Gab and Parler have/had rules, albeit lax ones, they just can't enforce them. If you actually were aware of the definition of free speech you'd understand it doesn't mean 'say what you like at any time, anywhere, without consequence'. If you do think that's what it is, then you'll always be disappointed. And, frankly, they're all part of a marketplace. They're businesses. You're free to choose a platform that doesn't have enforced rules and allows you to say anything you like unchecked. Twitter isn't government. It's a business. Don't like it? Go somewhere else. Ironically a lot of those bleating about it being heavily left biased are jumping ship to heavily right biased sites. Which is fine, it's a marketplace, your decision. And I'm not terrified at all. I just feel that if you can't create a platform that is capable of moderating itself properly, then don't be surprised at the outcome. Twitter and Facebook are the same impossible to moderate billions of tweets with a few hundred thousand moderators. That is the big issue with social media, and why we're here, talking about this. But at least they attempt to do so, and at least the content is more diverse than the above mentioned platforms. It's not the sole output. Finally, even if Twitter etc. were able to properly moderate according to their rules... you'd end up with Gab anyway, as more people would be banned, kicked off or prevented from posting vitriol. And you'd also end up with the exact opposite, a left leaning version of Gab with exactly the same content on it. So really it makes little difference. Essentially, don't post violent s*** and you'll be fine, on any platform. Problem is most people can't have a debate without resorting to it because they simply don't have the tools, so they get frustrated and reach for the bluntest one. A tool. Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Jan 2021 12.23pm) There's nothing violent about saying the election was stolen. Yet the voices that say this are being suppressed.
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Eaglecoops CR3 14 Jan 21 1.26pm | |
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Originally posted by Lombardinho
There's nothing violent about saying the election was stolen. Yet the voices that say this are being suppressed. Yep, but many conveniently forget about that. Its always been one rule for some, different rules for the many.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jan 21 1.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The good thing about this is that it is time measurable. So like your continual and insistent claims about Russia-gate on these forums we also get to see this prediction on the GOP's direction also fail. The common sense reality of the next GOP leader is that they can't afford to be anti Trump.....They will try to move on and take his base with them. That's why you mentioning Romney was so laughable....Those who hold the knife don't get to stay as leaders. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jan 2021 11.27am) Well you finally got something right! It is "time measurable". As will be the final outcome of the Mueller enquiry into the Russian interference which, in case you have conveniently forgotten, isn't over yet. Mueller handed many of his files onto other authorities, notable those in New York, as he was aware that action could not be taken during Trump's time in office. The fat lady has her costume back on and is in the wings waiting. Who-ever the next leader of the GOP is they will surely try to take Trump's "base" with them. That though doesn't preclude them being "anti-Trump"! They will distance themselves from his behaviour whilst claiming support, and credit, for some of the policies. A skilful politician can do that. The truth is that the "base" has no-where else to go unless a new party is formed and the stark reality of that is that it would split the conservatives so badly that they would have no chance of gaining power. Trump's behaviour both in the run-up to the election and subsequently, has ruined any realistic prospect of him controlling the GOP again. Whether his "base" has sufficient wisdom to recognise that is another question though. Romney didn't "hold a knife" did he, though that is undoubtedly how Trump and his supporters would see it. Trump expected personal loyalty above everything else and relentlessly dumped all over those who failed to give it. Some though value truth, honesty, duty, legality and the constitution higher than loyalty to a wanna be dictator. Romney did and he showed integrity and honour and no knife at all. Romney is no Brutus. The only one with a knife is Trump himself as has cut down those who dared speak against him and terrorised others. How Romney is now regarded by the others will be interesting but he is likely to see his stock rising fast. Other than with the die-hards of course. Which might explain your opinion.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Stirlingsays 14 Jan 21 2.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Well you finally got something right! It is "time measurable". As will be the final outcome of the Mueller enquiry into the Russian interference which, in case you have conveniently forgotten, isn't over yet. Mueller handed many of his files onto other authorities, notable those in New York, as he was aware that action could not be taken during Trump's time in office. The fat lady has her costume back on and is in the wings waiting. Who-ever the next leader of the GOP is they will surely try to take Trump's "base" with them. That though doesn't preclude them being "anti-Trump"! They will distance themselves from his behaviour whilst claiming support, and credit, for some of the policies. A skilful politician can do that. The truth is that the "base" has no-where else to go unless a new party is formed and the stark reality of that is that it would split the conservatives so badly that they would have no chance of gaining power. Trump's behaviour both in the run-up to the election and subsequently, has ruined any realistic prospect of him controlling the GOP again. Whether his "base" has sufficient wisdom to recognise that is another question though. Romney didn't "hold a knife" did he, though that is undoubtedly how Trump and his supporters would see it. Trump expected personal loyalty above everything else and relentlessly dumped all over those who failed to give it. Some though value truth, honesty, duty, legality and the constitution higher than loyalty to a wanna be dictator. Romney did and he showed integrity and honour and no knife at all. Romney is no Brutus. The only one with a knife is Trump himself as has cut down those who dared speak against him and terrorised others. How Romney is now regarded by the others will be interesting but he is likely to see his stock rising fast. Other than with the die-hards of course. Which might explain your opinion.
Ok boomer.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Jan 21 2.52pm | |
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Originally posted by Lombardinho
There's nothing violent about saying the election was stolen. Yet the voices that say this are being suppressed. Correct. Nothing violent at all in the way you say it there. But obviously it depends how you say it. If you say it as opinion, eg. 'I think', fine. If you claim it to be fact, 'I know' etc. you've got a problem, especially when you dress it up as journalism and put it on a site with millions of hits. And then if you go further and say 'This election was stolen, I know it was, look at all the evidence, these people are paedos, rapists, child killers.' Then you've really got a problem. What platform is going to look at that and go, yeah, that's fine. No legal or libel issues there at all. Carry on. This isn't specific to any group, BTW. It's just how it is. People don't seem to understand that is an issue as I said earlier, these days it's a 'well if I think it is it's true' attitude. Like before, if you can't see the issue with that then you're going to be disappointed. If the internet didn't allow for anonymity we would not be in such a severe situation... people would think twice about what they post, just like they think twice before speaking in a public place. Just like normal. If you want to answer the points I made in my previous post re. Twitter, Gab etc. I'll then happily discuss the BBC. Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Jan 2021 2.53pm)
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Lombardinho London 14 Jan 21 3.29pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Correct. Nothing violent at all in the way you say it there. But obviously it depends how you say it. If you say it as opinion, eg. 'I think', fine. If you claim it to be fact, 'I know' etc. you've got a problem, especially when you dress it up as journalism and put it on a site with millions of hits. And then if you go further and say 'This election was stolen, I know it was, look at all the evidence, these people are paedos, rapists, child killers.' Then you've really got a problem. What platform is going to look at that and go, yeah, that's fine. No legal or libel issues there at all. Carry on. This isn't specific to any group, BTW. It's just how it is. People don't seem to understand that is an issue as I said earlier, these days it's a 'well if I think it is it's true' attitude. Like before, if you can't see the issue with that then you're going to be disappointed. If the internet didn't allow for anonymity we would not be in such a severe situation... people would think twice about what they post, just like they think twice before speaking in a public place. Just like normal. If you want to answer the points I made in my previous post re. Twitter, Gab etc. I'll then happily discuss the BBC. Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Jan 2021 2.53pm) By it's inherent nature, free speech cannot be contained within the rules you have set up above. And as Eaglecoops pointed out those rules are one sided. Why can I not come down on you like a tonne of bricks because you refuse to accept the election's fraud?
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The Dolphin 14 Jan 21 4.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I read an article yesterday (sorry can't remember where) I am never a fan of banning people and you have to ask why Facebook etc. are so offended by the idiot Trump and yet allow real dictators airtime and for those countries to censor social media. These guys said the same thing last night.
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BlueJay UK 14 Jan 21 4.26pm | |
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Originally posted by Lombardinho
His point is that with such a huge backlog of flagged posts they are either in the business of intentionally not removing troubling or illegal content, or they are ill-equipped to do so. And both lead to the same kind of outcome. The result is certainly freedom of expression, but it will have a biased towards being skewing towards illegality (endless person specific death threats, illegal uploads and so on) over time if people know they can get away with it. Pr-0nhub recently had a similar situation [Link] Hopefully that shines a light on naive takes on what happens when platforms are not appropriately moderated and some of the inevitable consequences of it.
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The Dolphin 14 Jan 21 4.36pm | |
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Wisbech - you and I will have to agree to disagree.
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 14 Jan 21 4.41pm | |
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Originally posted by Lombardinho
By it's inherent nature, free speech cannot be contained within the rules you have set up above. And as Eaglecoops pointed out those rules are one sided. Why can I not come down on you like a tonne of bricks because you refuse to accept the election's fraud? No it can't entirely, but it does operate under some boundaries, always has done. You don't say some things in public that you'd say in private now do you? Why do you expect to be able to say things on a public forum, anonymously, that you know you wouldn't risk saying in a public space? No different. The 'rules' have always been one sided. It's nothing new... People need to be led and power structures need to exist in order for some semblance of civilisation to operate. It's human need and nature. So complaining about that beyond the realms of realism is a little rich. Also define 'you' re. 'tonne of bricks'. You're free to do so, but if you come to that party spewing vitriol without credible facts or evidence then don't be disappointed when you get swatted away, sued or worse. Even now you're still talking in absolutes despite the simple fact that nothing significant has been upheld in a court of law. If you then decide to set up a website posting faux journalistic articles that have no traceability in fact and begin aggressively marketing it to drive income... then expect to be challenged. If you have nothing behind those articles other than 'well I think it's true so there' then what, exactly, do you think is going to happen? I mean, even a child would understand that. Everyone is being played or playing the system at any point in time it's just that some don't realise it or know how to, and then they lash out when they fail at life looking for something or someone to blame. Always winners, always losers. Blame whoever you want, but ultimately it won't change anything. It'll just take up valuable time you could be spending doing something of worth/enjoyment.
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