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2020 US Presidential Election. (LOCKED)

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Lombardinho Flag London 14 Jan 21 12.08pm Send a Private Message to Lombardinho Add Lombardinho as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I read an interesting analysis of the Parler takedown last night. It seems they started to be warned by Amazon in November about the type of users and posts on the platform... even more interestingly apparently there was a 20,000+ backlog of user flagged posts for moderation. And that was then. So it had been building already and this probably was the straw that broke the camels back.

This is the issue with social media of any kind – it always comes down to human moderation. Even twitter and Facebook (hence your point about there still being hate content on twitter). The difference is they have tens of thousands of moderators, whereas indies like Parler and probably Gab are most likely drowning in backlogs. Although I doubt Gab care about moderation from what I've read TBH.

For a platform that hosts on servers like AWS that have rules, that's game over. For Gab, it can keep going without really worrying about it as it has it's own server system. Also important to note that there are a wider range of users on twitter, facebook etc. so that sort of hate content gets diluted against normies talking dross about their cats.

Parler and Gab not only have far more lax moderation rules/basically no moderation but they also have a high concentration of one type of group within their user base. That only leads to one outcome.


Yeah. It's called free speech.
Ask yourself why you're so terrified of it.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 14 Jan 21 12.21pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Lombardinho


Yeah. It's called free speech.
Ask yourself why you're so terrified of it.

Well actually it's not is it. Even Gab and Parler have/had rules, albeit lax ones, they just can't enforce them. If you actually were aware of the definition of free speech you'd understand it doesn't mean 'say what you like at any time, anywhere, without consequence'. If you do think that's what it is, then you'll always be disappointed.

And, frankly, they're all part of a marketplace. They're businesses. You're free to choose a platform that doesn't have enforced rules and allows you to say anything you like unchecked. Twitter isn't government. It's a business. Don't like it? Go somewhere else.

Ironically a lot of those bleating about it being heavily left biased are jumping ship to heavily right biased sites. Which is fine, it's a marketplace, your decision.

And I'm not terrified at all. I just feel that if you can't create a platform that is capable of moderating itself properly, then don't be surprised at the outcome.

Twitter and Facebook are the same – impossible to moderate billions of tweets with a few hundred thousand moderators. That is the big issue with social media, and why we're here, talking about this. But at least they attempt to do so, and at least the content is more diverse than the above mentioned platforms. It's not the sole output.

Finally, even if Twitter etc. were able to properly moderate according to their rules... you'd end up with Gab anyway, as more people would be banned, kicked off or prevented from posting vitriol. And you'd also end up with the exact opposite, a left leaning version of Gab with exactly the same content on it. So really it makes little difference.

Essentially, don't post violent s*** and you'll be fine, on any platform. Problem is most people can't have a debate without resorting to it because they simply don't have the tools, so they get frustrated and reach for the bluntest one. A tool.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Jan 2021 12.23pm)

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Lombardinho Flag London 14 Jan 21 12.52pm Send a Private Message to Lombardinho Add Lombardinho as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Well actually it's not is it. Even Gab and Parler have/had rules, albeit lax ones, they just can't enforce them. If you actually were aware of the definition of free speech you'd understand it doesn't mean 'say what you like at any time, anywhere, without consequence'. If you do think that's what it is, then you'll always be disappointed.

And, frankly, they're all part of a marketplace. They're businesses. You're free to choose a platform that doesn't have enforced rules and allows you to say anything you like unchecked. Twitter isn't government. It's a business. Don't like it? Go somewhere else.

Ironically a lot of those bleating about it being heavily left biased are jumping ship to heavily right biased sites. Which is fine, it's a marketplace, your decision.

And I'm not terrified at all. I just feel that if you can't create a platform that is capable of moderating itself properly, then don't be surprised at the outcome.

Twitter and Facebook are the same – impossible to moderate billions of tweets with a few hundred thousand moderators. That is the big issue with social media, and why we're here, talking about this. But at least they attempt to do so, and at least the content is more diverse than the above mentioned platforms. It's not the sole output.

Finally, even if Twitter etc. were able to properly moderate according to their rules... you'd end up with Gab anyway, as more people would be banned, kicked off or prevented from posting vitriol. And you'd also end up with the exact opposite, a left leaning version of Gab with exactly the same content on it. So really it makes little difference.

Essentially, don't post violent s*** and you'll be fine, on any platform. Problem is most people can't have a debate without resorting to it because they simply don't have the tools, so they get frustrated and reach for the bluntest one. A tool.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Jan 2021 12.23pm)

There's nothing violent about saying the election was stolen. Yet the voices that say this are being suppressed.
The BBC, for example, claim this wasn't the case and Biden won fair and square. When you dig into the BBC a bit you soon discover that they're pedo protectors. Do you really want to go along with their interpretations of current affairs once you know that?

 

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Eaglecoops Flag CR3 14 Jan 21 1.26pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by Lombardinho

There's nothing violent about saying the election was stolen. Yet the voices that say this are being suppressed.
The BBC, for example, claim this wasn't the case and Biden won fair and square. When you dig into the BBC a bit you soon discover that they're pedo protectors. Do you really want to go along with their interpretations of current affairs once you know that?

Yep, but many conveniently forget about that. It’s always been one rule for some, different rules for the many.

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Jan 21 1.56pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The good thing about this is that it is time measurable.

So like your continual and insistent claims about Russia-gate on these forums we also get to see this prediction on the GOP's direction also fail.

The common sense reality of the next GOP leader is that they can't afford to be anti Trump.....They will try to move on and take his base with them.

That's why you mentioning Romney was so laughable....Those who hold the knife don't get to stay as leaders.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jan 2021 11.27am)

Well you finally got something right! It is "time measurable".

As will be the final outcome of the Mueller enquiry into the Russian interference which, in case you have conveniently forgotten, isn't over yet. Mueller handed many of his files onto other authorities, notable those in New York, as he was aware that action could not be taken during Trump's time in office. The fat lady has her costume back on and is in the wings waiting.

Who-ever the next leader of the GOP is they will surely try to take Trump's "base" with them. That though doesn't preclude them being "anti-Trump"! They will distance themselves from his behaviour whilst claiming support, and credit, for some of the policies. A skilful politician can do that. The truth is that the "base" has no-where else to go unless a new party is formed and the stark reality of that is that it would split the conservatives so badly that they would have no chance of gaining power. Trump's behaviour both in the run-up to the election and subsequently, has ruined any realistic prospect of him controlling the GOP again. Whether his "base" has sufficient wisdom to recognise that is another question though.

Romney didn't "hold a knife" did he, though that is undoubtedly how Trump and his supporters would see it. Trump expected personal loyalty above everything else and relentlessly dumped all over those who failed to give it. Some though value truth, honesty, duty, legality and the constitution higher than loyalty to a wanna be dictator. Romney did and he showed integrity and honour and no knife at all.

Romney is no Brutus. The only one with a knife is Trump himself as has cut down those who dared speak against him and terrorised others. How Romney is now regarded by the others will be interesting but he is likely to see his stock rising fast. Other than with the die-hards of course. Which might explain your opinion.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays Flag 14 Jan 21 2.00pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Well you finally got something right! It is "time measurable".

As will be the final outcome of the Mueller enquiry into the Russian interference which, in case you have conveniently forgotten, isn't over yet. Mueller handed many of his files onto other authorities, notable those in New York, as he was aware that action could not be taken during Trump's time in office. The fat lady has her costume back on and is in the wings waiting.

Who-ever the next leader of the GOP is they will surely try to take Trump's "base" with them. That though doesn't preclude them being "anti-Trump"! They will distance themselves from his behaviour whilst claiming support, and credit, for some of the policies. A skilful politician can do that. The truth is that the "base" has no-where else to go unless a new party is formed and the stark reality of that is that it would split the conservatives so badly that they would have no chance of gaining power. Trump's behaviour both in the run-up to the election and subsequently, has ruined any realistic prospect of him controlling the GOP again. Whether his "base" has sufficient wisdom to recognise that is another question though.

Romney didn't "hold a knife" did he, though that is undoubtedly how Trump and his supporters would see it. Trump expected personal loyalty above everything else and relentlessly dumped all over those who failed to give it. Some though value truth, honesty, duty, legality and the constitution higher than loyalty to a wanna be dictator. Romney did and he showed integrity and honour and no knife at all.

Romney is no Brutus. The only one with a knife is Trump himself as has cut down those who dared speak against him and terrorised others. How Romney is now regarded by the others will be interesting but he is likely to see his stock rising fast. Other than with the die-hards of course. Which might explain your opinion.

Ok boomer.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 14 Jan 21 2.52pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Lombardinho

There's nothing violent about saying the election was stolen. Yet the voices that say this are being suppressed.
The BBC, for example, claim this wasn't the case and Biden won fair and square. When you dig into the BBC a bit you soon discover that they're pedo protectors. Do you really want to go along with their interpretations of current affairs once you know that?

Correct. Nothing violent at all in the way you say it there. But obviously it depends how you say it. If you say it as opinion, eg. 'I think', fine. If you claim it to be fact, 'I know' etc. you've got a problem, especially when you dress it up as journalism and put it on a site with millions of hits. And then if you go further and say 'This election was stolen, I know it was, look at all the evidence, these people are paedos, rapists, child killers.' Then you've really got a problem. What platform is going to look at that and go, yeah, that's fine. No legal or libel issues there at all. Carry on. This isn't specific to any group, BTW. It's just how it is.

People don't seem to understand that is an issue – as I said earlier, these days it's a 'well if I think it is it's true' attitude. Like before, if you can't see the issue with that then you're going to be disappointed.

If the internet didn't allow for anonymity we would not be in such a severe situation... people would think twice about what they post, just like they think twice before speaking in a public place. Just like normal.

If you want to answer the points I made in my previous post re. Twitter, Gab etc. I'll then happily discuss the BBC.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Jan 2021 2.53pm)

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Lombardinho Flag London 14 Jan 21 3.29pm Send a Private Message to Lombardinho Add Lombardinho as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Correct. Nothing violent at all in the way you say it there. But obviously it depends how you say it. If you say it as opinion, eg. 'I think', fine. If you claim it to be fact, 'I know' etc. you've got a problem, especially when you dress it up as journalism and put it on a site with millions of hits. And then if you go further and say 'This election was stolen, I know it was, look at all the evidence, these people are paedos, rapists, child killers.' Then you've really got a problem. What platform is going to look at that and go, yeah, that's fine. No legal or libel issues there at all. Carry on. This isn't specific to any group, BTW. It's just how it is.

People don't seem to understand that is an issue – as I said earlier, these days it's a 'well if I think it is it's true' attitude. Like before, if you can't see the issue with that then you're going to be disappointed.

If the internet didn't allow for anonymity we would not be in such a severe situation... people would think twice about what they post, just like they think twice before speaking in a public place. Just like normal.

If you want to answer the points I made in my previous post re. Twitter, Gab etc. I'll then happily discuss the BBC.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (14 Jan 2021 2.53pm)

By it's inherent nature, free speech cannot be contained within the rules you have set up above. And as Eaglecoops pointed out those rules are one sided. Why can I not come down on you like a tonne of bricks because you refuse to accept the election's fraud?
If you want a level playing field It should work both ways but even then you can't call it free speech.
As for your points about measuring censorship and making comparisons between the different platforms, it doesn't matter, does it? Each platform wishes to suppress the truth so they're all as bad as each other. Sorry - I should've added "I think" to that last sentence.

 

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The Dolphin Flag 14 Jan 21 4.04pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I read an article yesterday (sorry can't remember where)
but it listed the nasty countries and leaders who are not banned on social media.

I am never a fan of banning people and you have to ask why Facebook etc. are so offended by the idiot Trump and yet allow real dictators airtime and for those countries to censor social media.

These guys said the same thing last night.
They can read stuff on Twitter from absolute hard line nasties - people high up in the world - and yet Trump is banned.
This is all about the left cleansing the right and regardless of one's politics that is dangerous and wrong.
The nasty crap should be banned for sure but free speech has to remain.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 14 Jan 21 4.26pm

Originally posted by Lombardinho


Yeah. It's called free speech.
Ask yourself why you're so terrified of it.

His point is that with such a huge backlog of flagged posts they are either in the business of intentionally not removing troubling or illegal content, or they are ill-equipped to do so. And both lead to the same kind of outcome. The result is certainly freedom of expression, but it will have a biased towards being skewing towards illegality (endless person specific death threats, illegal uploads and so on) over time if people know they can get away with it. Pr-0nhub recently had a similar situation [Link] Hopefully that shines a light on naive takes on what happens when platforms are not appropriately moderated and some of the inevitable consequences of it.


Edited by BlueJay (14 Jan 2021 4.28pm)

 

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The Dolphin Flag 14 Jan 21 4.36pm Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Wisbech - you and I will have to agree to disagree.
To be picky - I said they are shutting everything Republican down THAT THEY CAN.
Twitter and the like have hugely powerful and wealthy Socialist people behind them - generally - and they will do what they can to stop the chatter that doesn't fit the rhetoric.
The horrible stuff is being left up - so I am told - I don't do Twitter
As for the next four years and your laughable comment - it is all about opinions and I don't think that my assertion could be classed as laughable - - maybe to you because it doesn't suit your politics?
So we disagree which is perfectly fine.
I don't particularly like Trump but he is far less dangerous than what is coming I think - maybe not in the first year but after that it will get worse in my opinion.
I hope not as it happens - if the USA is working well then that is good thing for the world.
As you say - we shall see - but free speech is so important!.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 14 Jan 21 4.41pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Lombardinho

By it's inherent nature, free speech cannot be contained within the rules you have set up above. And as Eaglecoops pointed out those rules are one sided. Why can I not come down on you like a tonne of bricks because you refuse to accept the election's fraud?
If you want a level playing field It should work both ways but even then you can't call it free speech.
As for your points about measuring censorship and making comparisons between the different platforms, it doesn't matter, does it? Each platform wishes to suppress the truth so they're all as bad as each other. Sorry - I should've added "I think" to that last sentence.

No it can't entirely, but it does operate under some boundaries, always has done. You don't say some things in public that you'd say in private now do you? Why do you expect to be able to say things on a public forum, anonymously, that you know you wouldn't risk saying in a public space? No different.

The 'rules' have always been one sided. It's nothing new... People need to be led and power structures need to exist in order for some semblance of civilisation to operate. It's human need and nature. So complaining about that beyond the realms of realism is a little rich.

Also – define 'you' re. 'tonne of bricks'. You're free to do so, but if you come to that party spewing vitriol without credible facts or evidence then don't be disappointed when you get swatted away, sued or worse. Even now you're still talking in absolutes despite the simple fact that nothing significant has been upheld in a court of law.

If you then decide to set up a website posting faux journalistic articles that have no traceability in fact and begin aggressively marketing it to drive income... then expect to be challenged. If you have nothing behind those articles other than 'well I think it's true so there' then what, exactly, do you think is going to happen?

I mean, even a child would understand that. Everyone is being played or playing the system at any point in time – it's just that some don't realise it or know how to, and then they lash out when they fail at life looking for something or someone to blame. Always winners, always losers. Blame whoever you want, but ultimately it won't change anything. It'll just take up valuable time you could be spending doing something of worth/enjoyment.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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