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Jacob Rees-Mogg
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 Kermit8  Hevon 13 Sep 17 9.46am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
So, you are saying that both JRM and Mary Glindon are 'religious fundamentalists'? You are saying that practising Catholics are 'religious fundamentalists'? And you are apparently espousing a situation where everyone has to think that same about important social and moral issues. Now, when in the twentieth century did a political movement dictate such a proposition? Of course Pope deferring, strongly held Church led belief-ridden Catholics are fundamentalists. What else could they be described as in regard to religion? If you want to involve religion more into politics that is your right but not for me. Can you imagine Parliament half-full of differing hardline religious doctrine viewpoints and each trying to influence policy? Would be a dangerous mess. Let's keep it secular.
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matt_himself  Matataland 13 Sep 17 10.06am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Of course Pope deferring, strongly held Church led belief-ridden Catholics are fundamentalists. What else could they be described as in regard to religion? If you want to involve religion more into politics that is your right but not for me. Can you imagine Parliament half-full of differing hardline religious doctrine viewpoints and each trying to influence policy? Would be a dangerous mess. Let's keep it secular. We live in a democracy, therefore people can hold whatever views they wish, including politicians. Calling Catholics fundamentalists is ridiculous. Are mainstream Muslims fundamenralists? Buddhists? How is having religious MP's in parliament any different from a bunch of ideologically staunch trot's? You want a liberal fascist state. You want rigid rules determining what people think. I tahini your thinking in this matter is warped.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 13 Sep 17 10.14am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
We live in a democracy, therefore people can hold whatever views they wish, including politicians. Calling Catholics fundamentalists is ridiculous. Are mainstream Muslims fundamenralists? Buddhists? How is having religious MP's in parliament any different from a bunch of ideologically staunch trot's? You want a liberal fascist state. You want rigid rules determining what people think. I tahini your thinking in this matter is warped. Is it? The Catholic Churches teaches that... Homosexuality is a mortal sin; divorce is a mortal sin; so is contraception. adultery, apostasy, sex outside marriage, suicide and heaps of other things. If one follows these tenets to the letter then one is a religious fundamentalist.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Sep 17 10.17am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Is it? The Catholic Churches teaches that... Homosexuality is a mortal sin; divorce is a mortal sin; so is contraception. adultery, apostasy, sex outside marriage, suicide and heaps of other things. If one follows these tenets to the letter then one is a religious fundamentalist. Islam teaches all these things in spades, why is your bile never directed at them? Edited by hedgehog50 (13 Sep 2017 10.17am)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 13 Sep 17 10.26am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Islam teaches all these things in spades, why is your bile never directed at them? Edited by hedgehog50 (13 Sep 2017 10.17am) This thread is about Jacob Rees-Mogg and Matt's wish for him to be PM. If he were an Islamic Fundamentalist going for the top job you can just swap that for Catholic in my previous posts and see how it reads.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Sep 17 10.57am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You are quite wrong human life begins with fertilisation, that is when an individual human being is created with its own genetic code. The heart of a typical embryo is beating at 8 weeks and the essential organs formed and already with its unique DNA. Life doesn't require any 'scientific basis' it started thousands of years before science law religion medecine or politicians even existed!!!! Not according to the law of the UK and science. Defining life as the potential to occur is absurd on many levels - and emotive. Life only exists when it can sustain its existence independently. At conception, 'life' is no more alive than a stone or a rock. Its just a few cells, incapable of existence, thought or self support. Its less alive than someone who is brain dead. You might as well say that life exists as sperm and embryos, both have the same potential and exist of 'living tissue'. Originally posted by steeleye20
Something obviously went wrong somewhere as these people seem to think they can determine whether life can exist or not, how many lives do they contribute to ending? Because sensible people base their definitions within criteria that can be quantified and evidenced. There are massive practicalities to be considered about abortion that are ignored by the ludicurious idea that a collections of cells is alive. Financial implications for example, and social ones relating to the reality that outlawing abortion doesn't prevent abortion. Its as absurd as the idea of contraception being 'wrong', in a world were human beings as a population on the planet are dangerously over represented in the eco-system (which cannot support them without reliance on fossil fuels - a limited resource). Originally posted by steeleye20
As for serious and permanent brain damage may I ask what you think actually happens in an abortion? Regrettably, the potential of a human being is prevented from occurring. Personally, I don't like abortion, but I understand that its a necessity based on current medical technology and social pressures. I would prefer it that abortion was never required, that we could engineer next generation contraception that allowed people to obtain total control of their reproductive system. Originally posted by steeleye20
When you think they are led to believe its the removal of excess tissue. I don't think about it in that way. I try to remember that increasing populations, large families, backstreet abortion, unwanted children are all a much bigger social problem than an abortion. Like I said, I don't like it, but its the best option we have. Originally posted by steeleye20
Its actually mutiliation and murder of a human being Only if you totally redefine the concepts of murder. Its not nice, but what is the alternative - A return to backstreet abortions, overcrowded families etc. Originally posted by steeleye20
Sorry but that's what it is, and that life could have been yours or mine. Emotive rhetoric, given the statistical relationship between crime and poverty, its more likely to be the person robbing your car stereo or otherwise committing acts of crime.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Sep 17 10.58am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Is it? The Catholic Churches teaches that... Homosexuality is a mortal sin; divorce is a mortal sin; so is contraception. adultery, apostasy, sex outside marriage, suicide and heaps of other things. If one follows these tenets to the letter then one is a religious fundamentalist. It is kind of, being Catholic doesn't immediately mean people are hardline fundamentalists. There are very hardline Catholics, but like any headbanger nutbars in religion they tend to be the minority.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Sep 17 11.01am |
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Nothing wrong with him being a Catholic, I'd not vote for him on the basis of his strong religious principles as I would feel that would trump his responsibility to represent his constituents. I think a lot of MPs fail in this area, in that they represent their own beliefs and ideals, rather than their constituents and the public.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Sep 17 11.03am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
We live in a democracy, therefore people can hold whatever views they wish, including politicians. Calling Catholics fundamentalists is ridiculous. Are mainstream Muslims fundamenralists? Buddhists? How is having religious MP's in parliament any different from a bunch of ideologically staunch trot's? You want a liberal fascist state. You want rigid rules determining what people think. I tahini your thinking in this matter is warped. Whilst I agree with you entirely, a liberal fascist state is a contradiction that makes no sense.
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Sep 17 11.18am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Is it? The Catholic Churches teaches that... Homosexuality is a mortal sin; divorce is a mortal sin; so is contraception. adultery, apostasy, sex outside marriage, suicide and heaps of other things. If one follows these tenets to the letter then one is a religious fundamentalist. They are a practising Catholic if they think or do the above but if they take a view that other people's morality is up to them, and allow others to choose their own path in life, then they are not fundamentalists. Fundamentalists actively seek others to think and act as they do.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Sep 17 11.20am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
This thread is about Jacob Rees-Mogg and Matt's wish for him to be PM. If he were an Islamic Fundamentalist going for the top job you can just swap that for Catholic in my previous posts and see how it reads. Catholic stance on homosexuality, adultery, apostasy, sex outside marriage, is to say "tut-tut" - Islamic stance on these things - death penalty. Divorce? Muslim men can very easily divorce any of their several wives - Muslim women find it difficult to divorce the one husband they are permitted to have.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Sep 17 11.20am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Whilst I agree with you entirely, a liberal fascist state is a contradiction that makes no sense. If liberals force others to think and act as they do, then that is fascism. No contradiction.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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