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Calais migrant trouble

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 31 Jul 15 10.22pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

I'm confused tbh because even though I don't know them I reckon I like the Calais lot more than I like the 'kill them' gang on here even though we share the same nationality and are supposed to look out for one another and put each other first.

Maybe it's because the migrants have some redeeming features.

 


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Catfish Flag Burgess Hill 31 Jul 15 10.29pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head:

1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000.

2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots like Calais (5,000 in all) .Because our borders (except with Republic of Ireland) are all sea ones and we are located in N Europe),our borders are very much more "secure" than most European countries to illegal entrants.In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014.

It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants.

There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh .

On the radio this week,I heard a Kent County Council spokesperson speak about having had to find accommodation for about 120 people who had "arrived" from over the Channel,resulting (understandably) in pressures when budgets are being slashed.Compare that to Greece (where budgets have been slashed somewhat more)having to cater for many many thousands.

For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths".

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.54pm)

The Council at present have 605 unaccompanied asylum seekers claiming to be under 18. They will be placed into foster care and local schools.
How many of them do you suppose are actually under 18 having travelled across a continent and secreted themselves aboard lorries to come here? When you look at the TV footage how many do you see who look like children?
If you live in Kent these men will soon be in a school getting free education - maybe with your daughter. People willing to foster real children who are actually in need will be scared off because they are having grown men foisted on them because the council have no way of verifying age and the law says they must be given the benefit of the doubt.

 


Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 31 Jul 15 10.38pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 10.15pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 9.39pm

What relevance does the origins of your grandparents have? Your post illustrates well the second strand of New Left tactics - as well as playing down significant problems for politically correct reasons, you then resort to patronising abuse of people who express views you do not agree with.

I note, of course, that you have not described the nature of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?


Reasoned argument from the various posters on here with views I disagree with strongly who "tear into" things I've posted on occasion;no issue whatsoever.

Constant blind prejudice and inane points from a poster of whatever political hue such as Derben; no thanks.I place you in that category.Just my opinion.You are entitled to yours.Will try to restrain myself from now on from engaging with your posts;many give me the creeps.Just my opinion.

The origins of my own grand parents might be felt to some to have some relevance to knowledge about (1)sharing a home with refugees/economic migrants so knowing such people for what they are actually like as "human beings"and (2) the ignorance of those with such a high degree of inbuilt prejudice towards refugees/economic migrants per se (remember,for example, the recent generic reference by a poster to "cockroaches"?)and (3) the motives/reasons of such people for coming here and the very positive contribution they have made overall to the enrichment of our society and (4) dealing with your imputation that "right thinking people" wouldn't actually want anyone who was a refugee/economic migrant living in their home if they had a choice, or that "lefties/liberals" talk the talk but of course are as prejudiced deep down as "right thinking people" like yourself.

All not entirely irrelevant to some of your very own posts.

As for major issues people wishing to come to "rich" countries in Europe surprised you seem on the face of it to have no idea

Here's some (not necessarily in order of importance,but just examples).

1. Humanitarian and political ones;Utter breakdown of some societies,ie Libya,Afghanistan,Syria.

2.Humanitarian issues re people drowning at sea,taking to the high seas with young kids in rickety boats etc

3.Economic migrant issues as old as the hills but now in a newer context due to globalisation.Not so different to people coming to the South from Scotland and the NE in the 1930's in droves,though there were no "illegality" issues,which raises an additional "issue".

4.Profiteering of people smugglers

5. The balance between compassion,humanitarian assistance,international obligations and immigration controls.

6.The age old battle against scaremongering,propaganda and ingrained prejudices in seeking an informed and proportionate debate,which does not mean only views I agree with.

7.Issues about applying for asylum in first "safe" country entered

8.Issues about spreading any burden equitably throughout the EU.

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 10.34pm)

No idea what you are on about in the first three paragraphs - implications that I called people 'cockroaches' etc - of course I have not, but don't let that interfere with your patronising abuse.

Your original reference to 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries' implies that there are issues for the receiving countries. I note that you have not mentioned any of these issues. Do you think there are such issues and what are they?

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 31 Jul 15 10.44pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 10.22pm

I'm confused tbh because even though I don't know them I reckon I like the Calais lot more than I like the 'kill them' gang on here even though we share the same nationality and are supposed to look out for one another and put each other first.

Maybe it's because the migrants have some redeeming features.

You don't say. Perhaps if you worked on your immigrataion policy it might help to clarify things.

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 31 Jul 15 10.52pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 10.44pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 10.22pm

I'm confused tbh because even though I don't know them I reckon I like the Calais lot more than I like the 'kill them' gang on here even though we share the same nationality and are supposed to look out for one another and put each other first.

Maybe it's because the migrants have some redeeming features.

You don't say. Perhaps if you worked on your immigrataion policy it might help to clarify things.


I told you my policy many posts ago. One nasty right winger out - one decent sort in.

 


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Tom-the-eagle Flag Croydon 31 Jul 15 11.08pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 10.52pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 10.44pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 10.22pm

I'm confused tbh because even though I don't know them I reckon I like the Calais lot more than I like the 'kill them' gang on here even though we share the same nationality and are supposed to look out for one another and put each other first.

Maybe it's because the migrants have some redeeming features.

You don't say. Perhaps if you worked on your immigrataion policy it might help to clarify things.


I told you my policy many posts ago. One nasty right winger out - one decent sort in.

Bless you Kermit, you naivety is actually quite endearing.
From having travelled in many of the countries these guys originate from, I can assure you that the average Calais migrant will be far more 'right wing' than the average HOL poster. Most you would find will hold extremely strong and intolerant views on sexism, religious or cultural matters.
Still, I’m sure they are all ‘decent sorts’

 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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legaleagle Flag 31 Jul 15 11.13pm

Quote Catfish at 31 Jul 2015 10.29pm

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.54pm)

The Council at present have 605 unaccompanied asylum seekers claiming to be under 18. They will be placed into foster care and local schools.
How many of them do you suppose are actually under 18 having travelled across a continent and secreted themselves aboard lorries to come here? When you look at the TV footage how many do you see who look like children?
If you live in Kent these men will soon be in a school getting free education - maybe with your daughter. People willing to foster real children who are actually in need will be scared off because they are having grown men foisted on them because the council have no way of verifying age and the law says they must be given the benefit of the doubt.

.....................................................

You don't say how many had entered the UK by channel tunnel/ferry/boat from around Calais.

If there are 6,000 estimated at Calais at any one time,I'd say 90% being over 18 might not be unthinkable.

"These men" (presumably all psychos/rapists and child abusers by definition being non white and poor)being in a school with my daughter? Probably similar to my parents (as children of refugees/economic migrants) being in school with your parents.My parents' parents had come in on forged docs,who knows if dates of birth were legit on them (only way to get out of the hell holes they were in).

Victor Moses was rumoured by some (no doubt falsely) to be older than said at times after coming as an unaccompanied refugee/economic migrant from Nigeria.Definitely not the type of kid to be allowed alongside any of our kids in school or be fostered,surely?


Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 11.14pm)

 

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legaleagle Flag 31 Jul 15 11.19pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 31 Jul 2015 11.08pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 10.52pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 10.44pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 10.22pm

I'm confused tbh because even though I don't know them I reckon I like the Calais lot more than I like the 'kill them' gang on here even though we share the same nationality and are supposed to look out for one another and put each other first.

Maybe it's because the migrants have some redeeming features.

You don't say. Perhaps if you worked on your immigrataion policy it might help to clarify things.


I told you my policy many posts ago. One nasty right winger out - one decent sort in.

Bless you Kermit, you naivety is actually quite endearing.
From having travelled in many of the countries these guys originate from, I can assure you that the average Calais migrant will be far more 'right wing' than the average HOL poster. Most you would find will hold extremely strong and intolerant views on sexism, religious or cultural matters.
Still, I’m sure they are all ‘decent sorts’

Sure,I've travelled in Africa, and Asia and in my experience (generalising hugely) , yes,many people are socially conservative.Some aren't.

Is your immigration policy to be based on the views of the individual immigrant,Tom?

Even social conservatives can sometimes be non rabid OK human beingsTom,no?

Well, at least they won't be alone when mixing with quite a few of the locals then,will they! Might even have persuaded Derben it was ok to have someone of a different race or ethnicity living in the neighbourhood.

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 11.21pm)

 

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 31 Jul 15 11.20pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 11.13pm

Quote Catfish at 31 Jul 2015 10.29pm

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.54pm)

The Council at present have 605 unaccompanied asylum seekers claiming to be under 18. They will be placed into foster care and local schools.
How many of them do you suppose are actually under 18 having travelled across a continent and secreted themselves aboard lorries to come here? When you look at the TV footage how many do you see who look like children?
If you live in Kent these men will soon be in a school getting free education - maybe with your daughter. People willing to foster real children who are actually in need will be scared off because they are having grown men foisted on them because the council have no way of verifying age and the law says they must be given the benefit of the doubt.

.....................................................

You don't say how many had entered the UK by channel tunnel/ferry/boat from around Calais.

If there are 6,000 estimated at Calais at any one time,I'd say 90% being over 18 might not be unthinkable.

"These men" (presumably all psychos/rapists and child abusers by definition being non white and poor)being in a school with my daughter? Probably similar to my parents (as children of refugees/economic migrants) being in school with your parents.My parents' parents had come in on forged docs,who knows if dates of birth were legit on them (only way to get out of the hell holes they were in).

Victor Moses was rumoured by some (no doubt falsely) to be older than said at times after coming as an unaccompanied refugee/economic migrant from Nigeria.Definitely not the type of kid to be allowed alongside any of our kids in school or be fostered,surely?


Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 11.14pm)


_______________________________________________

You still will not tell us what the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries' is in regards to the receiving countries.

Also, what is your immigration policy for the UK - do you have any sort of quotas or qualifying rules?

Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 11.24pm)

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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legaleagle Flag 31 Jul 15 11.22pm

sorry 7 reasons not enough for you to assimilate even one.

As for immigration policy,as I posted a while ago,I don't believe in unfettered immigration from outside the EU.We actually have pretty strong fettered immigration policies.I do agree with free movement within the EU.I do believe in complying with the 1951 UNHCR Refugee Convention in full,in spirit as well as the letter.

Enough.Cheerio

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 11.27pm)

 

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 31 Jul 15 11.30pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 31 Jul 2015 11.08pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 10.52pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 10.44pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 10.22pm

I'm confused tbh because even though I don't know them I reckon I like the Calais lot more than I like the 'kill them' gang on here even though we share the same nationality and are supposed to look out for one another and put each other first.

Maybe it's because the migrants have some redeeming features.

You don't say. Perhaps if you worked on your immigrataion policy it might help to clarify things.


I told you my policy many posts ago. One nasty right winger out - one decent sort in.

Bless you Kermit, you naivety is actually quite endearing.
From having travelled in many of the countries these guys originate from, I can assure you that the average Calais migrant will be far more 'right wing' than the average HOL poster. Most you would find will hold extremely strong and intolerant views on sexism, religious or cultural matters.
Still, I’m sure they are all ‘decent sorts’

Bloody Christians you mean? Right - shoot the leeching b******s!

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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legaleagle Flag 31 Jul 15 11.31pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 10.38pm


No idea what you are on about in the first three paragraphs - implications that I called people 'cockroaches' etc - of course I have not, but don't let that interfere with your patronising abuse.


The fact you didn't "understand" what I was on about I think may illustrate the gulf faced.By the way,I did not suggest you had personally called anyone a cockroach.Apologies for responding after saying cheerio;naughty me

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 11.32pm)

 

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