Jeremy Corbyn

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Jeremy Corbyn

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.08am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays This is a tricky area because you have inflation which is bad enough right now. If you raise public sector pay across the board then you also raise inflation and it's a spiral upwards. However we had MPs raising their own pay....even if they created a bulls*** 'independent' panel to report on it....Who decided who was on that panel? How are they protected from lobbying? Or indeed known to be independent? And why aren't other public bodies getting 'independent panels'. As you can probably guess I very suspicious of the 'independent' panel stuff and the rationalizations used to justify one sector getting a raise and not another. It would be far better if raises came with productivity increases but I don't think that this argument works for some sectors....for example I know it doesn't in education because I know that statistics and outcomes are manipulated in the first place as it is. I'm not arrogant enough to say I really know what the answer is on this one. I'm suspicious of those who say they do. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jun 2017 11.22pm) The point is that while one "independent" body suggests above inflation increases for MPs and this is accepted gratefully, another "independent" body is ignored when they recommend increases above an arbitrary government cap for public sector workers, many key workers such as emergency services, nurses and teachers. This government is very much do as we say not as we do. It represents vested interests and it's fiscal program has been damaging to our economy, general living standards and our public services in order to benefit party donors (asset owners and the property industry prominent among others)
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.08am

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

This is a tricky area because you have inflation which is bad enough right now. If you raise public sector pay across the board then you also raise inflation and it's a spiral upwards.

However we had MPs raising their own pay....even if they created a bulls*** 'independent' panel to report on it....Who decided who was on that panel? How are they protected from lobbying? Or indeed known to be independent? And why aren't other public bodies getting 'independent panels'.

As you can probably guess I very suspicious of the 'independent' panel stuff and the rationalizations used to justify one sector getting a raise and not another.

It would be far better if raises came with productivity increases but I don't think that this argument works for some sectors....for example I know it doesn't in education because I know that statistics and outcomes are manipulated in the first place as it is.

I'm not arrogant enough to say I really know what the answer is on this one. I'm suspicious of those who say they do.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jun 2017 11.22pm)

The point is that while one "independent" body suggests above inflation increases for MPs and this is accepted gratefully, another "independent" body is ignored when they recommend increases above an arbitrary government cap for public sector workers, many key workers such as emergency services, nurses and teachers.

This government is very much do as we say not as we do. It represents vested interests and it's fiscal program has been damaging to our economy, general living standards and our public services in order to benefit party donors (asset owners and the property industry prominent among others)

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.09am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So you have told us 1000 times. It wouldn't be because you are a Labour activist by any chance? No it would be because I have half a brain.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.09am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So you have told us 1000 times.

It wouldn't be because you are a Labour activist by any chance?

No it would be because I have half a brain.

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Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jun 17 9.19am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle No it would be because I have half a brain. Perhaps you should try the half that works.
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Hrolf The Ganger

29 Jun 17 9.19am

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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

No it would be because I have half a brain.

Perhaps you should try the half that works.

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Hansy 29 Jun 17 10.26am
I was upset at the result yesterday. But I personally think this is just dirty politics. The government will not let Corbyn win, and will put him in his place as an opposition leader. The amendment was declined because it was a Labour amendment. I fully expect the Conservative to put through a amendment to the amendment to remove the public sector cap. As the reaction will be disastrous for them. This might be at the next budget or in the much shorter term. The government will vote down anything Corbyn/Labour put forward. The MPs cheering is just plain stupid. Edited by Hansy (29 Jun 2017 10.27am)
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Hansy

29 Jun 17 10.26am

I was upset at the result yesterday.

But I personally think this is just dirty politics. The government will not let Corbyn win, and will put him in his place as an opposition leader. The amendment was declined because it was a Labour amendment.

I fully expect the Conservative to put through a amendment to the amendment to remove the public sector cap. As the reaction will be disastrous for them. This might be at the next budget or in the much shorter term.

The government will vote down anything Corbyn/Labour put forward. The MPs cheering is just plain stupid.

Edited by Hansy (29 Jun 2017 10.27am)

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Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jun 17 5.36pm
Interesting that the Tories are supposed to be divided and in disarray and yet Corbyn sacks three Cabinet members for voting against the whip. Labour policy on Brexit is laughable. It seems to be to think of any way possible to disagree with the government position in public even though many of them, including Corbyn, obviously support 'Hard' Brexit more than some Tories.
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Hrolf The Ganger

30 Jun 17 5.36pm

Interesting that the Tories are supposed to be divided and in disarray and yet Corbyn sacks three Cabinet members for voting against the whip.

Labour policy on Brexit is laughable. It seems to be to think of any way possible to disagree with the government position in public even though many of them, including Corbyn, obviously support 'Hard' Brexit more than some Tories.

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Stirlingsays 30 Jun 17 5.38pm
Originally posted by Hansy I was upset at the result yesterday. But I personally think this is just dirty politics. The government will not let Corbyn win, and will put him in his place as an opposition leader. The amendment was declined because it was a Labour amendment. I fully expect the Conservative to put through a amendment to the amendment to remove the public sector cap. As the reaction will be disastrous for them. This might be at the next budget or in the much shorter term. The government will vote down anything Corbyn/Labour put forward. The MPs cheering is just plain stupid. Edited by Hansy (29 Jun 2017 10.27am) Seconded. These are meant to be rational people....Yet the politics of the playground, minus the punching, still prevails. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

30 Jun 17 5.38pm

Originally posted by Hansy

I was upset at the result yesterday.

The government will vote down anything Corbyn/Labour put forward. The MPs cheering is just plain stupid.

Edited by Hansy (29 Jun 2017 10.27am)

Seconded.

These are meant to be rational people....Yet the politics of the playground, minus the punching, still prevails.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 30 Jun 17 5.39pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle No it would be because I have half a brain. A full one and you wouldn't be a Corbyn supporter. Sorry for that but you did leave the door wide open. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

30 Jun 17 5.39pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

No it would be because I have half a brain.

A full one and you wouldn't be a Corbyn supporter.

Sorry for that but you did leave the door wide open.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 30 Jun 17 5.43pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Interesting that the Tories are supposed to be divided and in disarray and yet Corbyn sacks three Cabinet members for voting against the whip. Labour policy on Brexit is laughable. It seems to be to think of any way possible to disagree with the government position in public even though many of them, including Corbyn, obviously support 'Hard' Brexit more than some Tories. Good that he's in a position of strength to do that knowing there's plenty more mp's to fill cabinet posts. As an aside, why do you think activist is an insult or that anyone with left views works for Labour? You are the mayor of simpleton today.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 30 Jun 17 5.43pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Interesting that the Tories are supposed to be divided and in disarray and yet Corbyn sacks three Cabinet members for voting against the whip.

Good that he's in a position of strength to do that knowing there's plenty more mp's to fill cabinet posts.

As an aside, why do you think activist is an insult or that anyone with left views works for Labour? You are the mayor of simpleton today.

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Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jun 17 5.49pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Good that he's in a position of strength to do that knowing there's plenty more mp's to fill cabinet posts. As an aside, why do you think activist is an insult or that anyone with left views works for Labour? You are the mayor of simpleton today. You only seem to be able to insult these days. It's unfathomable that you don't have a yellow. Being an activist means that you will say anything to promoter the Labour Party regardless of their ineptitude. That makes anything you post a non starter because it is nothing but unquestioning promotion.
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Hrolf The Ganger

30 Jun 17 5.49pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Good that he's in a position of strength to do that knowing there's plenty more mp's to fill cabinet posts.

As an aside, why do you think activist is an insult or that anyone with left views works for Labour? You are the mayor of simpleton today.

You only seem to be able to insult these days.

It's unfathomable that you don't have a yellow.

Being an activist means that you will say anything to promoter the Labour Party regardless of their ineptitude. That makes anything you post a non starter because it is nothing but unquestioning promotion.

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Stirlingsays 30 Jun 17 5.56pm
Not all activists but plenty of them are negatives. Plenty of activists are unethical in their methods and only care about 'winning' and will do pretty much anything to achieve it. Ever heard of an 'objective activist'? Exactly....most of them aren't helpful in moving towards a better society. This said there are subsets of activism where this isn't fair comment and I recognise this......without lobbying change rarely happens and so I'm not criticising all of it. It pretty much depends upon how it is done and what principles they have.....Activism propagated fairly and responsibly is actually a plus....But unfairly it is a wrecking ball and incredibly divisive. Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jun 2017 5.59pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

30 Jun 17 5.56pm

Not all activists but plenty of them are negatives.

Plenty of activists are unethical in their methods and only care about 'winning' and will do pretty much anything to achieve it.

Ever heard of an 'objective activist'? Exactly....most of them aren't helpful in moving towards a better society.

This said there are subsets of activism where this isn't fair comment and I recognise this......without lobbying change rarely happens and so I'm not criticising all of it.

It pretty much depends upon how it is done and what principles they have.....Activism propagated fairly and responsibly is actually a plus....But unfairly it is a wrecking ball and incredibly divisive.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jun 2017 5.59pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jun 17 6.07pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Not all activists but plenty of them are negatives. Plenty of activists are unethical in their methods and only care about 'winning' and will do pretty much anything to achieve it. Ever heard of an 'objective activist'? Exactly....most of them aren't helpful in moving towards a better society. This said there are subsets of activism where this isn't fair comment and I recognise this......without lobbying change rarely happens and so I'm not criticising all of it. It pretty much depends upon how it is done and what principles they have.....Activism propagated fairly and responsibly is actually a plus....But unfairly it is a wrecking ball and incredibly divisive. Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jun 2017 5.59pm) Party politics might be a useful tool in democracy but it is often destructive and counter productive for making progress in the real world. It's not dissimilar to the nuclear deterrent debate. If you knew for sure that everyone else would, you would destroy weapons immediately. You just know it will never happen 'cause you can't trust anyone and it's the same in party politics.
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Hrolf The Ganger

30 Jun 17 6.07pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Not all activists but plenty of them are negatives.

Plenty of activists are unethical in their methods and only care about 'winning' and will do pretty much anything to achieve it.

Ever heard of an 'objective activist'? Exactly....most of them aren't helpful in moving towards a better society.

This said there are subsets of activism where this isn't fair comment and I recognise this......without lobbying change rarely happens and so I'm not criticising all of it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jun 2017 5.59pm)

Party politics might be a useful tool in democracy but it is often destructive and counter productive for making progress in the real world.

It's not dissimilar to the nuclear deterrent debate. If you knew for sure that everyone else would, you would destroy weapons immediately. You just know it will never happen 'cause you can't trust anyone and it's the same in party politics.

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jeeagles 30 Jun 17 11.51pm
I notice his supporters are socialist until it comes to getting a round it.
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jeeagles

30 Jun 17 11.51pm

I notice his supporters are socialist until it comes to getting a round it.

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