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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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croydon proud  Any european country i fancy! 15 Nov 22 11.22pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
If Russia were going to expand the conflict then it would make sense to go heavy and hard and this isn't that.....it looks more likely it's fallout from a missile interception. They are all flirting with disaster. Again, agreed!
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 Mapletree  Croydon 15 Nov 22 11.57pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Turkey have been an ally of Russia and have agreed to be a gas hub and link. Shortly after they experience two terrorist attacks within a matter of days. To some it's obvious, to others there's nothing to see. Please explain oh wise one.
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| Stirlingsays 16 Nov 22 12.01am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Please explain oh wise one. I honestly can't be bothered.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| stancummins 16 Nov 22 6.18am |
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so if as now US officials are saying it was Ukranian missiles do Nato invoke now Article 4 or 5 and declare war on Ukraine
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| Stirlingsays 16 Nov 22 11.01am |
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It should be noted, that the Ukraine had called Russians claims that it wasn't involved a 'conspiracy theory'. It appears that only once that article five is in danger of being called that suddenly the truth of something matters a great deal.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Frickin Saweet  South Cronx 16 Nov 22 11.29am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Ukraine would not have done that, too much scrutiny. My guess is Ukrainian air defences gone off target or blew a Russian missile off target. that's what the Polish gov't are saying. Although I didn't think Ukraine were using Russian-made rockets. Thought most of their air defence systems were supplied by the West. Either way, when you're face with defending 90-odd Russian rockets in an afternoon, it's no massive surprise that some of your own don't go exactly where you want them to. Zelensky jumped the gun a bit with his early statement blaming the Russians. That said, if the Russians were't attacking in the first place...
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| Stirlingsays 16 Nov 22 11.47am |
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Originally posted by Frickin Saweet
that's what the Polish gov't are saying. Although I didn't think Ukraine were using Russian-made rockets. Thought most of their air defence systems were supplied by the West. Either way, when you're face with defending 90-odd Russian rockets in an afternoon, it's no massive surprise that some of your own don't go exactly where you want them to. Zelensky jumped the gun a bit with his early statement blaming the Russians. That said, if the Russians were't attacking in the first place... My view is that Russia isn't the west's friend, however it has been turned into the west's enemy when this never needed to happen. I regard it as deliberate. Our policy is regime change in Russia, which we lie about and it's about as dangerous as it gets....we are back in cold war with nukes that make those used on Japan look like toys. For example, the US shouldn't have been in the Ukraine helping overthrown a democratically elected pro-Russian government in 2014 and which started the civil war. None of our media seemed to have an issue with a coup, when it benefits us. Biden, as part of the Obama administration and the State department had been in the Ukraine interfering for years before 2014. The fact that a significant part of Ukraine is pro Russia is continually ignored and omitted in any reasoning behind this conflict. The Ukraine we continually refer to is in fact Western Ukraine, who are far more Polish and other former Soviet occupied countries in their attitudes and heritage, than the south and east of Ukraine. Some might ask themselves just what the hell were we doing there, in that particular country before 2014....Much less other border countries with Russia, it was specifically Ukraine where the main interests were....all conveniently memory holed. If the Ukrainians hadn't broken the Minsk agreements that would have helped as well.....not having Russia hating Biden in would also have helped. I didn't agree with the February invasion, however this war has its roots in 2014 and before that in our expansionism of Nato as a confrontation of Russia. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Nov 2022 3.34pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 16 Nov 22 5.51pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It should be noted, that the Ukraine had called Russians claims that it wasn't involved a 'conspiracy theory'. It appears that only once that article five is in danger of being called that suddenly the truth of something matters a great deal. What if it wasn't the truth though? What if it turns out to be a Russian missile. Why is the western narrative in this instance suddenly believable, whereas on other matters it's deemed to be the opposite? If you were being purist about the west and perceived misinformation then arguably the missile could well have been Russian, but in order to prevent escalation the west are deciding to frame it differently. Who knows, diplomacy may well be at work in the background and calling this incident out as a Russian error might derail that progress, so it's been agreed by both sides to say otherwise. Not saying that's the case but ultimately I find the ability to suddenly spin on a dime interesting Edited by SW19 CPFC (16 Nov 2022 5.53pm)
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Nov 22 6.00pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
What if it wasn't the truth though? What if it turns out to be a Russian missile. Why is the western narrative in this instance suddenly believable, whereas on other matters it's deemed to be the opposite? If you were being purist about the west and perceived misinformation then arguably the missile could well have been Russian, but in order to prevent escalation the west are deciding to frame it differently. Who knows, diplomacy may well be at work in the background and calling this incident out as a Russian error might derail that progress, so it's been agreed by both sides to say otherwise. Not saying that's the case but ultimately I find the ability to suddenly spin on a dime interesting Edited by SW19 CPFC (16 Nov 2022 5.53pm) Fair point. Let's say that it's my position from the information thus far, but I concede that I could be wrong.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Nov 22 10.25pm |
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Apparently, officially at least, US is fully confident in the accuracy of Warsaw's conclusions that a Ukrainian missile fell in Poland. Zelensky insists the missile was Russian and denies this narrative. That's the situation at least, what I think....well what any of us think has always been irrelevant. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Nov 2022 10.26pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Nov 22 10.43pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I honestly can't be bothered. I wonder why. Did it occur to you that the terrorism is most likely PKK. The same organisation dumped by Sweden in order to overcome Turkey’s objections to it joining NATO?
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Nov 22 10.47pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It should be noted, that the Ukraine had called Russians claims that it wasn't involved a 'conspiracy theory'. It appears that only once that article five is in danger of being called that suddenly the truth of something matters a great deal. Only Russians call it ‘the’ Ukraine. Because they like to consider it their borderland. The country is Ukraine, it is NOT Russia’s borderland. Are you a Russian bot?
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