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Another black man shot by police in USA

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Aug 16 3.39pm

Originally posted by 7mins

I listened to a (black) police officer justify why black people are stopped and searched more than any other races.
He said it's about searching for suspects, "if you're looking for Andre the Giant, you don't search for the seven dwarfs" was the line he used. He said the majority of violent crime and robbery is committed by black people, these are "contact crimes" crimes where the victim comes in to contact with the perp, this means there is a description to go on, and that is why black people get stopped more.
He also said in areas where they were told to scale back on stop and search, crime went up (he mentioned a area of New York, but I couldn't find any stats to back this up).

Must make you feel great though if your one of the large number of people in the community who haven't committed a crime when you are constantly being stopped and searched, pulled over whilst driving. I loved it when I was a young man, being constantly stopped by the police for looking like a suspect. I taught me great respect for the law.... and I'm white.

Of course its also worth noting that also Black people are far more likely to be arrested and prosecuted for minor crimes because black areas are disproportionately represented in zero tolerance programs, such as the one in Baltimore that was aimed at clearing drug corners, that has now become the standard of policing.

Its astonishing how different the sentences are for crack as opposed to cocaine, or meth and cocaine. Which in no way class related....

 


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7mins Flag In the bush 17 Aug 16 4.11pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Must make you feel great though if your one of the large number of people in the community who haven't committed a crime when you are constantly being stopped and searched, pulled over whilst driving. I loved it when I was a young man, being constantly stopped by the police for looking like a suspect. I taught me great respect for the law.... and I'm white.

Of course its also worth noting that also Black people are far more likely to be arrested and prosecuted for minor crimes because black areas are disproportionately represented in zero tolerance programs, such as the one in Baltimore that was aimed at clearing drug corners, that has now become the standard of policing.

Its astonishing how different the sentences are for crack as opposed to cocaine, or meth and cocaine. Which in no way class related....

I'm a little confused as to what your point is.
Are you suggesting that police target black people committing crime or black people commit more crime?
I to was stopped a lot growing up, had zero impact on my respect for police. They have a job to do, if I was pulled over, I was polite and curteous.
I've posted on here about how I got done for not wearing a seat belt, I moved my car less than 50yards (that was the total journey). My dad is black and my mum Irish. When my Irish family went back to Ireland in the 80's they were constantly questioned by police why they were travelling between Ireland and the mainland, but we understood the reasons, we knew that some Irish pricks planted bombs amongst innocents, so we knew we had to make small sacrifices to help the police keep us as safe as possible. I have never had a bad experience with a uk police officer.
The worst racism I have encountered has been from the black members of my family, due to the fact that all my girlfriends have been white, for some reason the black females seem to see this as some kind of snub to the black community. I've also heard a few dodgy comments if say a black boxer is fighting a white boxer.
I also totally accept because of my skin tone, a white fella is probably not going to express negative views of black people in front of me.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 17 Aug 16 4.37pm

Originally posted by 7mins

I'm a little confused as to what your point is.
Are you suggesting that police target black people committing crime or black people commit more crime?
I to was stopped a lot growing up, had zero impact on my respect for police. They have a job to do, if I was pulled over, I was polite and curteous.
I've posted on here about how I got done for not wearing a seat belt, I moved my car less than 50yards (that was the total journey). My dad is black and my mum Irish. When my Irish family went back to Ireland in the 80's they were constantly questioned by police why they were travelling between Ireland and the mainland, but we understood the reasons, we knew that some Irish pricks planted bombs amongst innocents, so we knew we had to make small sacrifices to help the police keep us as safe as possible. I have never had a bad experience with a uk police officer.
The worst racism I have encountered has been from the black members of my family, due to the fact that all my girlfriends have been white, for some reason the black females seem to see this as some kind of snub to the black community. I've also heard a few dodgy comments if say a black boxer is fighting a white boxer.
I also totally accept because of my skin tone, a white fella is probably not going to express negative views of black people in front of me.

I don't accept that people should be stopped and searched and pulled over just because they belong to a demographic that's represented in crime. I believe this, because the Law states that an officer should have reasonable suspicion to utilise these powers. As a young man I was pulled over regularly, and stopped and search was a common occurrence.

I expect the police to extend me the same courtesy and consideration they would any other person, and treat me the same. Not to prejudge me. That you accept prejudice, is of course your right, but don't believe for a minute that everyone else is, or should be the same as you. Its this kind of targeting and harassment that creates ill will between community and the police.

I don't accept that I should be treated as a football hooligan on the basis of being a football fan either. I believe that the law has to serve and protect all of society, not just the interests of some, and that in not doing this, it creates problems with areas.

The police have to serve and protect all of the community, not just the bits that its politically convenient to do so. Remember that one of the reasons why low level black crime is disproportionate is the disproportionate use of stop and search powers. Meaning you are much more likely to end up with offences such as loitering, possession of a controlled substance, Tresspass, smoking a joint etc and so on.

Despite the fact most of the drug dealers and criminals I've ever known are all white.

I expect, as a citizen of the UK, not to be targeted by authority of the state, as a convenience.

 


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7mins Flag In the bush 17 Aug 16 7.56pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I don't accept that people should be stopped and searched and pulled over just because they belong to a demographic that's represented in crime. I believe this, because the Law states that an officer should have reasonable suspicion to utilise these powers. As a young man I was pulled over regularly, and stopped and search was a common occurrence.

I expect the police to extend me the same courtesy and consideration they would any other person, and treat me the same. Not to prejudge me. That you accept prejudice, is of course your right, but don't believe for a minute that everyone else is, or should be the same as you. Its this kind of targeting and harassment that creates ill will between community and the police.

I don't accept that I should be treated as a football hooligan on the basis of being a football fan either. I believe that the law has to serve and protect all of society, not just the interests of some, and that in not doing this, it creates problems with areas.

The police have to serve and protect all of the community, not just the bits that its politically convenient to do so. Remember that one of the reasons why low level black crime is disproportionate is the disproportionate use of stop and search powers. Meaning you are much more likely to end up with offences such as loitering, possession of a controlled substance, Tresspass, smoking a joint etc and so on.

Despite the fact most of the drug dealers and criminals I've ever known are all white.

I expect, as a citizen of the UK, not to be targeted by authority of the state, as a convenience.

You have no idea why the police pulled you over, I brought a car once from a fella and was pulled over more and more, turned out it had been used in a crime so when the police NPR computer saw me, it popped up.
James, you put forward some good (but flawed) arguments, but you do seem a little precious. I don't mind the police pulling me over, because I know they're just doing their job, and by them doing their job, society is a little bit safer.
Also opinion (no matter how many times you repeat them) are not facts.

 

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7mins Flag In the bush 17 Aug 16 8.05pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Jamie, you said the police have a "zero tolerance of Black crime".
What is "black crime" and are you suggesting that other crimes committed by other races benefit from a more lax punishment?

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 18 Aug 16 9.33am

Originally posted by 7mins

Jamie, you said the police have a "zero tolerance of Black crime".
What is "black crime" and are you suggesting that other crimes committed by other races benefit from a more lax punishment?

Zero tolerance policing in poor areas, which typically hits black communities disproportionately, given the socio-economics and demographics of black America.

I don't think that the system is overly stacked against Blacks specifically, although racism is present in the US police force, it would be absurd to assume it common place or an operating standard.

Its much easier to end up with a criminal record in the states, if your poor. Its been regularly raised by the American Legal Societies how common place pleas are taken as a means of avoiding the economic implications of a trial (and the quality of public defenders is shocking in some states and counties). Mandatory minimums increasing create greater problems than they resolve.

The problem in the US, with Law Enforcement and Justice in the states, is that its heavily weighted towards financial capacity.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 18 Aug 16 9.41am

Originally posted by 7mins

You have no idea why the police pulled you over, I brought a car once from a fella and was pulled over more and more, turned out it had been used in a crime so when the police NPR computer saw me, it popped up.
James, you put forward some good (but flawed) arguments, but you do seem a little precious. I don't mind the police pulling me over, because I know they're just doing their job, and by them doing their job, society is a little bit safer.
Also opinion (no matter how many times you repeat them) are not facts.

I know why, its because I was young, and a bit of a goth. Oh the fun and joy of then having to go to the local police station, eight miles away, and present documents, usually every few weeks - Until it got to the point that I was carrying my licence, insurance etc on me everywhere I went.

Of course they weren't 'just doing their job' they were targeting me. Their job dictates they must have a reason to pull you over.

Funny enough when I started to stand up for myself, recording the names, numbers of officers and asking their reasons for pulling me over and keeping a record of each instance, it stopped.

Oh the fun we had, travelling back from a gig, and spending 20-30 minutes outside the car, in the cold, whilst the police yet again searched the car and everyone, and then once again having to go to the police station and present documentation within 7 days.

Of course it turned out to be a benefit in the long run, when I did get into drugs, knowing exactly how police searches were conducted made it very easy to inform people how to avoid being caught in possession and where they'll look when searching a car. I do have that to thank them for.

 


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7mins Flag In the bush 18 Aug 16 6.25pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I know why, its because I was young, and a bit of a goth. Oh the fun and joy of then having to go to the local police station, eight miles away, and present documents, usually every few weeks - Until it got to the point that I was carrying my licence, insurance etc on me everywhere I went.

Of course they weren't 'just doing their job' they were targeting me. Their job dictates they must have a reason to pull you over.

Funny enough when I started to stand up for myself, recording the names, numbers of officers and asking their reasons for pulling me over and keeping a record of each instance, it stopped.

Oh the fun we had, travelling back from a gig, and spending 20-30 minutes outside the car, in the cold, whilst the police yet again searched the car and everyone, and then once again having to go to the police station and present documentation within 7 days.

Of course it turned out to be a benefit in the long run, when I did get into drugs, knowing exactly how police searches were conducted made it very easy to inform people how to avoid being caught in possession and where they'll look when searching a car. I do have that to thank them for.

You don't know why they pulled you over, you have a good idea but you don't know.
Opinion isn't fact.
Also, maybe the police just went on gut instinct... And since you ended up getting involved in drugs, maybe they weren't far off?

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Aug 16 10.47am

Originally posted by 7mins

You don't know why they pulled you over, you have a good idea but you don't know.
Opinion isn't fact.
Also, maybe the police just went on gut instinct... And since you ended up getting involved in drugs, maybe they weren't far off?

Yeah I do, because it happened to other friends as well. Lazy policing rather than actual policing. I don't think they had the power of prophecy, because when I did, they never caught me

 


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7mins Flag In the bush 19 Aug 16 1.27pm Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Yeah I do, because it happened to other friends as well. Lazy policing rather than actual policing. I don't think they had the power of prophecy, because when I did, they never caught me

Maybe they should have pulled you over more !!

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 19 Aug 16 5.17pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Yeah I do, because it happened to other friends as well. Lazy policing rather than actual policing. I don't think they had the power of prophecy, because when I did, they never caught me

I got pulled over for having long hair when I was younger. I have also got pulled over for having a flash car.

So what do we learn from this?

The police judge people by their appearance and based on experience and prejudice.
In other words, they are like everyone else.

 

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7mins Flag In the bush 20 Aug 16 11.24am Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I got pulled over for having long hair when I was younger. I have also got pulled over for having a flash car.

So what do we learn from this?

The police judge people by their appearance and based on experience and prejudice.
In other words, they are like everyone else.

In my opinion, police using years of experience solves more problems than it causes.

 

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