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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Aug 16 3.39pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
I listened to a (black) police officer justify why black people are stopped and searched more than any other races. Must make you feel great though if your one of the large number of people in the community who haven't committed a crime when you are constantly being stopped and searched, pulled over whilst driving. I loved it when I was a young man, being constantly stopped by the police for looking like a suspect. I taught me great respect for the law.... and I'm white. Of course its also worth noting that also Black people are far more likely to be arrested and prosecuted for minor crimes because black areas are disproportionately represented in zero tolerance programs, such as the one in Baltimore that was aimed at clearing drug corners, that has now become the standard of policing. Its astonishing how different the sentences are for crack as opposed to cocaine, or meth and cocaine. Which in no way class related....
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7mins In the bush 17 Aug 16 4.11pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Must make you feel great though if your one of the large number of people in the community who haven't committed a crime when you are constantly being stopped and searched, pulled over whilst driving. I loved it when I was a young man, being constantly stopped by the police for looking like a suspect. I taught me great respect for the law.... and I'm white. Of course its also worth noting that also Black people are far more likely to be arrested and prosecuted for minor crimes because black areas are disproportionately represented in zero tolerance programs, such as the one in Baltimore that was aimed at clearing drug corners, that has now become the standard of policing. Its astonishing how different the sentences are for crack as opposed to cocaine, or meth and cocaine. Which in no way class related.... I'm a little confused as to what your point is.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Aug 16 4.37pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
I'm a little confused as to what your point is. I don't accept that people should be stopped and searched and pulled over just because they belong to a demographic that's represented in crime. I believe this, because the Law states that an officer should have reasonable suspicion to utilise these powers. As a young man I was pulled over regularly, and stopped and search was a common occurrence. I expect the police to extend me the same courtesy and consideration they would any other person, and treat me the same. Not to prejudge me. That you accept prejudice, is of course your right, but don't believe for a minute that everyone else is, or should be the same as you. Its this kind of targeting and harassment that creates ill will between community and the police. I don't accept that I should be treated as a football hooligan on the basis of being a football fan either. I believe that the law has to serve and protect all of society, not just the interests of some, and that in not doing this, it creates problems with areas. The police have to serve and protect all of the community, not just the bits that its politically convenient to do so. Remember that one of the reasons why low level black crime is disproportionate is the disproportionate use of stop and search powers. Meaning you are much more likely to end up with offences such as loitering, possession of a controlled substance, Tresspass, smoking a joint etc and so on. Despite the fact most of the drug dealers and criminals I've ever known are all white. I expect, as a citizen of the UK, not to be targeted by authority of the state, as a convenience.
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7mins In the bush 17 Aug 16 7.56pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I don't accept that people should be stopped and searched and pulled over just because they belong to a demographic that's represented in crime. I believe this, because the Law states that an officer should have reasonable suspicion to utilise these powers. As a young man I was pulled over regularly, and stopped and search was a common occurrence. I expect the police to extend me the same courtesy and consideration they would any other person, and treat me the same. Not to prejudge me. That you accept prejudice, is of course your right, but don't believe for a minute that everyone else is, or should be the same as you. Its this kind of targeting and harassment that creates ill will between community and the police. I don't accept that I should be treated as a football hooligan on the basis of being a football fan either. I believe that the law has to serve and protect all of society, not just the interests of some, and that in not doing this, it creates problems with areas. The police have to serve and protect all of the community, not just the bits that its politically convenient to do so. Remember that one of the reasons why low level black crime is disproportionate is the disproportionate use of stop and search powers. Meaning you are much more likely to end up with offences such as loitering, possession of a controlled substance, Tresspass, smoking a joint etc and so on. Despite the fact most of the drug dealers and criminals I've ever known are all white. I expect, as a citizen of the UK, not to be targeted by authority of the state, as a convenience. You have no idea why the police pulled you over, I brought a car once from a fella and was pulled over more and more, turned out it had been used in a crime so when the police NPR computer saw me, it popped up.
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7mins In the bush 17 Aug 16 8.05pm | |
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Jamie, you said the police have a "zero tolerance of Black crime".
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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Aug 16 9.33am | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Jamie, you said the police have a "zero tolerance of Black crime". Zero tolerance policing in poor areas, which typically hits black communities disproportionately, given the socio-economics and demographics of black America. I don't think that the system is overly stacked against Blacks specifically, although racism is present in the US police force, it would be absurd to assume it common place or an operating standard. Its much easier to end up with a criminal record in the states, if your poor. Its been regularly raised by the American Legal Societies how common place pleas are taken as a means of avoiding the economic implications of a trial (and the quality of public defenders is shocking in some states and counties). Mandatory minimums increasing create greater problems than they resolve. The problem in the US, with Law Enforcement and Justice in the states, is that its heavily weighted towards financial capacity.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Aug 16 9.41am | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
You have no idea why the police pulled you over, I brought a car once from a fella and was pulled over more and more, turned out it had been used in a crime so when the police NPR computer saw me, it popped up. I know why, its because I was young, and a bit of a goth. Oh the fun and joy of then having to go to the local police station, eight miles away, and present documents, usually every few weeks - Until it got to the point that I was carrying my licence, insurance etc on me everywhere I went. Of course they weren't 'just doing their job' they were targeting me. Their job dictates they must have a reason to pull you over. Funny enough when I started to stand up for myself, recording the names, numbers of officers and asking their reasons for pulling me over and keeping a record of each instance, it stopped. Oh the fun we had, travelling back from a gig, and spending 20-30 minutes outside the car, in the cold, whilst the police yet again searched the car and everyone, and then once again having to go to the police station and present documentation within 7 days. Of course it turned out to be a benefit in the long run, when I did get into drugs, knowing exactly how police searches were conducted made it very easy to inform people how to avoid being caught in possession and where they'll look when searching a car. I do have that to thank them for.
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7mins In the bush 18 Aug 16 6.25pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I know why, its because I was young, and a bit of a goth. Oh the fun and joy of then having to go to the local police station, eight miles away, and present documents, usually every few weeks - Until it got to the point that I was carrying my licence, insurance etc on me everywhere I went. Of course they weren't 'just doing their job' they were targeting me. Their job dictates they must have a reason to pull you over. Funny enough when I started to stand up for myself, recording the names, numbers of officers and asking their reasons for pulling me over and keeping a record of each instance, it stopped. Oh the fun we had, travelling back from a gig, and spending 20-30 minutes outside the car, in the cold, whilst the police yet again searched the car and everyone, and then once again having to go to the police station and present documentation within 7 days. Of course it turned out to be a benefit in the long run, when I did get into drugs, knowing exactly how police searches were conducted made it very easy to inform people how to avoid being caught in possession and where they'll look when searching a car. I do have that to thank them for. You don't know why they pulled you over, you have a good idea but you don't know.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Aug 16 10.47am | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
You don't know why they pulled you over, you have a good idea but you don't know. Yeah I do, because it happened to other friends as well. Lazy policing rather than actual policing. I don't think they had the power of prophecy, because when I did, they never caught me
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7mins In the bush 19 Aug 16 1.27pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Yeah I do, because it happened to other friends as well. Lazy policing rather than actual policing. I don't think they had the power of prophecy, because when I did, they never caught me Maybe they should have pulled you over more !!
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Hrolf The Ganger 19 Aug 16 5.17pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Yeah I do, because it happened to other friends as well. Lazy policing rather than actual policing. I don't think they had the power of prophecy, because when I did, they never caught me I got pulled over for having long hair when I was younger. I have also got pulled over for having a flash car. So what do we learn from this? The police judge people by their appearance and based on experience and prejudice.
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7mins In the bush 20 Aug 16 11.24am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I got pulled over for having long hair when I was younger. I have also got pulled over for having a flash car. So what do we learn from this? The police judge people by their appearance and based on experience and prejudice. In my opinion, police using years of experience solves more problems than it causes.
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