Calais migrant trouble

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Calais migrant trouble

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Hrolf The Ganger 31 Jul 15 7.35pm
Thers seems to be a number of debates around this issue but in predictable form they seem often to be divided down political lines. One thing is for sure. The current situation has to change. Clearly, better security has to be in place around the tunnel. Clearly, the stream of migrants have to be processed and either returned to Africa or allowed in depending on status. There is clearly a percentage of migrants who have a preference for Britain, Our system of dealinng with these people with regard to benefits etc has to be in line with the rest of Europe. Theer must be no advantage to coming here or any other European country in that respect. Regardless of their reasons, we nust put the interests of British citizens before migrants. It's all very well to sympathise with their plight and in many cases I do, but there is an endless number of people leaving Africa and other places and we can't take an infinate number. There has to be control and the current situation in Kent is totally unacceptable. The French must shoulder much of the blame. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (31 Jul 2015 7.37pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

31 Jul 15 7.35pm

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Thers seems to be a number of debates around this issue but in predictable form they seem often to be divided down political lines.
One thing is for sure. The current situation has to change. Clearly, better security has to be in place around the tunnel. Clearly, the stream of migrants have to be processed and either returned to Africa or allowed in depending on status. There is clearly a percentage of migrants who have a preference for Britain, Our system of dealinng with these people with regard to benefits etc has to be in line with the rest of Europe. Theer must be no advantage to coming here or any other European country in that respect. Regardless of their reasons, we nust put the interests of British citizens before migrants. It's all very well to sympathise with their plight and in many cases I do, but there is an endless number of people leaving Africa and other places and we can't take an infinate number. There has to be control and the current situation in Kent is totally unacceptable. The French must shoulder much of the blame.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (31 Jul 2015 7.37pm)

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 31 Jul 15 8.00pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 31 Jul 2015 7.35pm Thers seems to be a number of debates around this issue but in predictable form they seem often to be divided down political lines. One thing is for sure. The current situation has to change. Clearly, better security has to be in place around the tunnel. Clearly, the stream of migrants have to be processed and either returned to Africa or allowed in depending on status. There is clearly a percentage of migrants who have a preference for Britain, Our system of dealinng with these people with regard to benefits etc has to be in line with the rest of Europe. Theer must be no advantage to coming here or any other European country in that respect. Regardless of their reasons, we nust put the interests of British citizens before migrants. It's all very well to sympathise with their plight and in many cases I do, but there is an endless number of people leaving Africa and other places and we can't take an infinate number. There has to be control and the current situation in Kent is totally unacceptable. The French must shoulder much of the blame. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (31 Jul 2015 7.37pm) I doubt the French want this either. The fact that many want to come here is hardly their fault. This instance, along with many others, shows that there is no true interest in the 'European Model' unless it makes 'someone' wealthy. Where's the help from the rest of Europe? Simple as that. As for our borders, neither red or blue have done anything to tighten up for years yet many here expect them to do so? Get real. Barring a few soundbites here and there, it 'aint ever gonna happen so get used to it. Edited by -TUX- (31 Jul 2015 8.01pm) Edited by -TUX- (31 Jul 2015 8.04pm) Time to move forward together.
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Alphabettispaghetti 31 Jul 15 8.00pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 31 Jul 2015 7.35pm

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (31 Jul 2015 7.37pm)

I doubt the French want this either. The fact that many want to come here is hardly their fault.
This instance, along with many others, shows that there is no true interest in the 'European Model' unless it makes 'someone' wealthy. Where's the help from the rest of Europe? Simple as that.
As for our borders, neither red or blue have done anything to tighten up for years yet many here expect them to do so? Get real.
Barring a few soundbites here and there, it 'aint ever gonna happen so get used to it.

Edited by -TUX- (31 Jul 2015 8.01pm)

Edited by -TUX- (31 Jul 2015 8.04pm)

Time to move forward together.

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legaleagle 31 Jul 15 8.43pm
I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head: 1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000. 2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots like Calais (5,000 in all) .Because our borders (except with Republic of Ireland) are all sea ones and we are located in N Europe),our borders are very much more "secure" than most European countries to illegal entrants.In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014. It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants. There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh . On the radio this week,I heard a Kent County Council spokesperson speak about having had to find accommodation for about 120 people who had "arrived" from over the Channel,resulting (understandably) in pressures when budgets are being slashed.Compare that to Greece (where budgets have been slashed somewhat more)having to cater for many many thousands. For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths". Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.54pm)
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legaleagle

31 Jul 15 8.43pm

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head:

1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000.

2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots like Calais (5,000 in all) .Because our borders (except with Republic of Ireland) are all sea ones and we are located in N Europe),our borders are very much more "secure" than most European countries to illegal entrants.In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014.

It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants.

There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh .

On the radio this week,I heard a Kent County Council spokesperson speak about having had to find accommodation for about 120 people who had "arrived" from over the Channel,resulting (understandably) in pressures when budgets are being slashed.Compare that to Greece (where budgets have been slashed somewhat more)having to cater for many many thousands.

For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths".

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.54pm)

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 31 Jul 15 8.45pm
I don't think it helps that most of the Calais migrants are male, black, smelly and unwashed and wearing stinky old clothes. I for one would genuinely feel more agreeable to their plight if they were mainly young, blond Swedish females wearing boots and shorts skirts. In fact I would even be perfectly happy to smuggle three or four across the border in the boot of my car and help with their housing and other ongoing needs. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 31 Jul 15 8.45pm

I don't think it helps that most of the Calais migrants are male, black, smelly and unwashed and wearing stinky old clothes. I for one would genuinely feel more agreeable to their plight if they were mainly young, blond Swedish females wearing boots and shorts skirts. In fact I would even be perfectly happy to smuggle three or four across the border in the boot of my car and help with their housing and other ongoing needs.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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leggedstruggle Croydon 31 Jul 15 8.51pm
Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head: 1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000. 2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014. It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants. There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh . For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths". Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm) How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers? Usual left wing drivel playing down any crisis for politically correct reasons - same with Islamic terrorism, Muslim child abuse gangs, black gun, knife and drug crimes etc. But of course isolated incidents of racism and homophobia are the end of the world. By the way, what is the substance, as you see it, of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.02pm) mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 31 Jul 15 8.51pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head:

2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014.

For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths".

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm)

How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers?

Usual left wing drivel playing down any crisis for politically correct reasons - same with Islamic terrorism, Muslim child abuse gangs, black gun, knife and drug crimes etc. But of course isolated incidents of racism and homophobia are the end of the world.

By the way, what is the substance, as you see it, of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?

Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.02pm)

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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fed up eagle Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 31 Jul 15 8.51pm
Quote Tom-the-eagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.45pm I don't think it helps that most of the Calais migrants are male, black, smelly and unwashed and wearing stinky old clothes. I for one would genuinely feel more agreeable to their plight if they were mainly young, blond Swedish females wearing boots and shorts skirts. In fact I would even be perfectly happy to smuggle three or four across the border in the boot of my car and help with their housing and other ongoing needs. Hispanic girls are quite attractive too. I'd take a few of those.
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fed up eagle

Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 31 Jul 15 8.51pm

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.45pm

Hispanic girls are quite attractive too. I'd take a few of those.

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legaleagle 31 Jul 15 9.09pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head: 1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000. 2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014. It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants. There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh . For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths". Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm) How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers? Usual left wing drivel playing down any crisis for politically correct reasons - same with Islamic terrorism, Muslim child abuse gangs, black gun, knife and drug crimes etc. But of course isolated incidents of racism and homophobia are the end of the world. By the way, what is the substance as you see it of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.01pm) First para repeat of yesterday's post by you.Re-read my answer.I have put up people in the past with nowhere to go, having fled war and persecution abroad.Bet you haven't,unless they have been fleeing living near anyone of a different race,religion or ethnicity to you. Rest of your post illustrates your simply quite breathtaking ignorances and prejudices and failure to offer anything remotely meaningful to the debate in question far better than I could have.You remind me of a poster called Derben. Didn't he get red-carded? I'm a grandchild of four refugees/economic migrants.You come across (metaphorically) as if you were a grandchild of four people who lived in a cave with a world view limited to the cave and who have successfully passed on their outlook to you unchanged from cavemen days. Can we offer you passage through the Channel tunnel in the other direction in a one for one exchange? Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 9.12pm)
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legaleagle

31 Jul 15 9.09pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head:

2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014.

For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths".

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm)

How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers?

By the way, what is the substance as you see it of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?

Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.01pm)

First para repeat of yesterday's post by you.Re-read my answer.I have put up people in the past with nowhere to go, having fled war and persecution abroad.Bet you haven't,unless they have been fleeing living near anyone of a different race,religion or ethnicity to you.

Rest of your post illustrates your simply quite breathtaking ignorances and prejudices and failure to offer anything remotely meaningful to the debate in question far better than I could have.You remind me of a poster called Derben. Didn't he get red-carded?

I'm a grandchild of four refugees/economic migrants.You come across (metaphorically) as if you were a grandchild of four people who lived in a cave with a world view limited to the cave and who have successfully passed on their outlook to you unchanged from cavemen days.

Can we offer you passage through the Channel tunnel in the other direction in a one for one exchange?

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 9.12pm)

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 31 Jul 15 9.09pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head: 1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000. 2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014. It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants. There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh . For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths". Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm) How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers? Usual left wing drivel playing down any crisis for politically correct reasons - same with Islamic terrorism, Muslim child abuse gangs, black gun, knife and drug crimes etc. But of course isolated incidents of racism and homophobia are the end of the world. By the way, what is the substance, as you see it, of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? -------------------------- Todays news is full of right wing ''drivel'' and nothing will change. Just an observation. Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.02pm) Edited by -TUX- (31 Jul 2015 9.10pm) Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 31 Jul 15 9.09pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head:

2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014.

For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths".

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm)

How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers?

Usual left wing drivel playing down any crisis for politically correct reasons - same with Islamic terrorism, Muslim child abuse gangs, black gun, knife and drug crimes etc. But of course isolated incidents of racism and homophobia are the end of the world.

By the way, what is the substance, as you see it, of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?
--------------------------

Todays news is full of right wing ''drivel'' and nothing will change. Just an observation.

Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.02pm)

Edited by -TUX- (31 Jul 2015 9.10pm)

Time to move forward together.

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 31 Jul 15 9.22pm
Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 9.09pm Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head: 1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000. 2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014. It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants. There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh . For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths". Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm) How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers? Usual left wing drivel playing down any crisis for politically correct reasons - same with Islamic terrorism, Muslim child abuse gangs, black gun, knife and drug crimes etc. But of course isolated incidents of racism and homophobia are the end of the world. By the way, what is the substance as you see it of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.01pm) First para repeat of yesterday's post by you.Re-read my answer.I have put up people in the past with nowhere to go, having fled war and persecution abroad.Bet you haven't,unless they have been fleeing living near anyone of a different race,religion or ethnicity to you. Rest of your post illustrates your simply quite breathtaking ignorances and prejudices and failure to offer anything remotely meaningful to the debate in question far better than I could have.You remind me of a poster called Derben. Didn't he get red-carded? I'm a grandchild of four refugees/economic migrants.You come across (metaphorically) as if you were a grandchild of four people who lived in a cave with a world view limited to the cave and who have successfully passed on their outlook to you unchanged from cavemen days. Can we offer you passage through the Channel tunnel in the other direction in a one for one exchange? Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 9.12pm) He can't read. But he made a new friend the other night...............who also can't read. Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 31 Jul 15 9.22pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 9.09pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head:

2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014.

For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths".

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm)

How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers?

By the way, what is the substance as you see it of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?

Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.01pm)

Can we offer you passage through the Channel tunnel in the other direction in a one for one exchange?

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 9.12pm)

He can't read. But he made a new friend the other night...............who also can't read.

Time to move forward together.

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leggedstruggle Croydon 31 Jul 15 9.39pm
Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 9.09pm Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head: 1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000. 2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014. It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants. There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh . For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths". Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm) How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers? Usual left wing drivel playing down any crisis for politically correct reasons - same with Islamic terrorism, Muslim child abuse gangs, black gun, knife and drug crimes etc. But of course isolated incidents of racism and homophobia are the end of the world. By the way, what is the substance as you see it of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.01pm) First para repeat of yesterday's post by you.Re-read my answer.I have put up people in the past with nowhere to go, having fled war and persecution abroad.Bet you haven't,unless they have been fleeing living near anyone of a different race,religion or ethnicity to you. Rest of your post illustrates your simply quite breathtaking ignorances and prejudices and failure to offer anything remotely meaningful to the debate in question far better than I could have.You remind me of a poster called Derben. Didn't he get red-carded? I'm a grandchild of four refugees/economic migrants.You come across (metaphorically) as if you were a grandchild of four people who lived in a cave with a world view limited to the cave and who have successfully passed on their outlook to you unchanged from cavemen days. Can we offer you passage through the Channel tunnel in the other direction in a one for one exchange? Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 9.12pm) What relevance does the origins of your grandparents have? Your post illustrates well the second strand of New Left tactics - as well as playing down significant problems for politically correct reasons, you then resort to patronising abuse of people who express views you do not agree with. I note, of course, that you have not described the nature of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 31 Jul 15 9.39pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 9.09pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head:

2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014.

For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths".

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm)

How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers?

By the way, what is the substance as you see it of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?

Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.01pm)

Can we offer you passage through the Channel tunnel in the other direction in a one for one exchange?

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 9.12pm)

What relevance does the origins of your grandparents have? Your post illustrates well the second strand of New Left tactics - as well as playing down significant problems for politically correct reasons, you then resort to patronising abuse of people who express views you do not agree with.

I note, of course, that you have not described the nature of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 31 Jul 15 9.56pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 9.39pm Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 9.09pm Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head: 1,The myth that they are all coming here because of benefits.Welfare benefits are overall better in France and Germany than here.If people are coming because we have the best benefits,how come in 2014,there were over 200,000 thousand applications for asylum in Germany and over 60,000 in France.We had not much over 30,000. 2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014. It seems the present "crisis" may be very much exacerbated because French employees/former employees of the company that owns the tunnel and which recently closed a ferry service so workers losing their jobs,have been carrying out actions deliberately to cause long queues at the tunnel etc,so creating the conditions for desperate people to try to get on slow moving/static trains/lorries.The causal effect of what is now seen as a migrant created crisis causing meetings of the Government's COBRA committee to be held for PR reasons not being necessarily the migrants. There is clearly a major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries and how best to deal with that.Some fleeing horrendous humanitarian crises in their own counties/wars and some pure economic migrants.But the idea (whipped up with a fury by the popular press) that the hoards are focused solely on the UK (and mainly because of benefits)is IMO pure tosh . For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths". Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm) How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers? Usual left wing drivel playing down any crisis for politically correct reasons - same with Islamic terrorism, Muslim child abuse gangs, black gun, knife and drug crimes etc. But of course isolated incidents of racism and homophobia are the end of the world. By the way, what is the substance as you see it of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.01pm) First para repeat of yesterday's post by you.Re-read my answer.I have put up people in the past with nowhere to go, having fled war and persecution abroad.Bet you haven't,unless they have been fleeing living near anyone of a different race,religion or ethnicity to you. Rest of your post illustrates your simply quite breathtaking ignorances and prejudices and failure to offer anything remotely meaningful to the debate in question far better than I could have.You remind me of a poster called Derben. Didn't he get red-carded? I'm a grandchild of four refugees/economic migrants.You come across (metaphorically) as if you were a grandchild of four people who lived in a cave with a world view limited to the cave and who have successfully passed on their outlook to you unchanged from cavemen days. Can we offer you passage through the Channel tunnel in the other direction in a one for one exchange? Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 9.12pm) What relevance does the origins of your grandparents have? Your post illustrates well the second strand of New Left tactics - as well as playing down significant problems for politically correct reasons, you then resort to patronising abuse of people who express views you do not agree with. I note, of course, that you have not described the nature of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? Ring any bells? Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 31 Jul 15 9.56pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 9.39pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 9.09pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 8.51pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2015 8.43pm

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with as well as humanitarian crises.But,to knock two myths on the head:

2. The "hoards" are at the door compared to other "rich" European countries with the UK being near singled out as shouldering a major "burden".See 1 above.Also,being an island,by definition entry here is much harder.So people congregate in certain spots liked Calais (5,000 in all) .In other countries far greater numbers cross the border illegally/try to because they have long land borders.Its just there's no need for all those trying to congregate in one main spot. Germany estimated 57,0000 illegal entrants in 2014.

For some reason,the popular press seem to focus very intensely on the "myths".

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 8.44pm)

How many are you going to put up at Legaleagle Towers?

By the way, what is the substance as you see it of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?

Edited by leggedstruggle (31 Jul 2015 9.01pm)

Can we offer you passage through the Channel tunnel in the other direction in a one for one exchange?

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 9.12pm)

What relevance does the origins of your grandparents have? Your post illustrates well the second strand of New Left tactics - as well as playing down significant problems for politically correct reasons, you then resort to patronising abuse of people who express views you do not agree with.

I note, of course, that you have not described the nature of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?

Ring any bells?

Time to move forward together.

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legaleagle 31 Jul 15 10.15pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 9.39pm What relevance does the origins of your grandparents have? Your post illustrates well the second strand of New Left tactics - as well as playing down significant problems for politically correct reasons, you then resort to patronising abuse of people who express views you do not agree with. I note, of course, that you have not described the nature of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'? Reasoned argument from the various posters on here with views I disagree with strongly at times who "tear into" things I've posted on occasion or posters who have "called me" for silly things I've written in the heat of the moment;no issue whatsoever. Constant blind prejudice and inane points from a poster of whatever political hue such as Derben; no thanks.I place you in that category.Just my opinion.You are entitled to yours.Will try to restrain myself from now on from engaging with your posts;many give me the creeps.Just my opinion. The origins of my own grand parents might be felt to some to have some relevance to knowledge about (1)sharing a home with refugees/economic migrants so knowing such people for what they are actually like as "human beings"and (2) the ignorance of those with such a high degree of inbuilt prejudice towards refugees/economic migrants per se (remember,for example, the recent generic reference by a poster to "cockroaches"?)and (3) the motives/reasons of so many such people for coming here and the very positive contribution they have made overall to the enrichment of our society and (4) dealing with your imputation that "right thinking people" wouldn't actually want anyone who was a refugee/economic migrant living in their home if they had a choice, or that "lefties/liberals" talk the talk but of course are as prejudiced deep down as "right thinking people" like yourself when it comes to sharing their own 4 walls with a refugee or an economic migrant. All not entirely irrelevant to some of your very own posts. As for major issues re people wishing to come to "rich" countries in Europe, surprised you seem on the face of it to have no idea so you ask me. Here's some IMO (not necessarily in order of importance,but just examples). 1. Humanitarian, political and economic ones;Utter breakdown of some societies,ie Libya,Afghanistan. Doesn't just happen "over there".Look at the death of Yugoslavia in the heart of Europe not too long ago,and where the consequences (including migration and asylum)linger to this day.Was there 2 weeks ago.Seeing people still dealing with having had their homes burnt down by their neighbours because of their ethnicity/religion and forced to flee at the point of a gun with no possessions to somewhere with near zero decent job prospects brings it home a bit more than reading the papers or watching TV 2.Humanitarian issues re people drowning at sea,taking to the high seas with young kids in rickety boats etc 3.Economic migrant issues as old as the hills but now in a newer context due to globalisation.Not so different in a lot of ways to people coming to the South from Scotland and the NE in the 1930's in large numbersd and from Ireland in the 19th century,though there were no "illegality" or "nation state" issues,which raises an additional "issue".We've had our own fair share of outward "economic migrants" over the decades and centuries to lands of perceived "better opportunity" 4.Profiteering of people smugglers 5.The balance between compassion,humanitarian assistance,international obligations and immigration controls. 6.The age old battle against scaremongering,propaganda and ingrained prejudices in seeking an informed and proportionate debate,which does not mean only views I agree with. 7.Issues about applying for asylum in first "safe" country entered 8.Issues about spreading any burden equitably throughout the EU. 8.Seeing the "issues" in a global context 9.Issues about whether there are also agendas being stoked here, for not the best of reasons,which may not be immediately obvious Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 11.01pm)
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legaleagle

31 Jul 15 10.15pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 31 Jul 2015 9.39pm

I note, of course, that you have not described the nature of the 'major issue about large numbers of people from outside Europe seeking to come to "rich" European countries'?

Reasoned argument from the various posters on here with views I disagree with strongly at times who "tear into" things I've posted on occasion or posters who have "called me" for silly things I've written in the heat of the moment;no issue whatsoever.

Constant blind prejudice and inane points from a poster of whatever political hue such as Derben; no thanks.I place you in that category.Just my opinion.You are entitled to yours.Will try to restrain myself from now on from engaging with your posts;many give me the creeps.Just my opinion.

The origins of my own grand parents might be felt to some to have some relevance to knowledge about (1)sharing a home with refugees/economic migrants so knowing such people for what they are actually like as "human beings"and (2) the ignorance of those with such a high degree of inbuilt prejudice towards refugees/economic migrants per se (remember,for example, the recent generic reference by a poster to "cockroaches"?)and (3) the motives/reasons of so many such people for coming here and the very positive contribution they have made overall to the enrichment of our society and (4) dealing with your imputation that "right thinking people" wouldn't actually want anyone who was a refugee/economic migrant living in their home if they had a choice, or that "lefties/liberals" talk the talk but of course are as prejudiced deep down as "right thinking people" like yourself when it comes to sharing their own 4 walls with a refugee or an economic migrant.

All not entirely irrelevant to some of your very own posts.

As for major issues re people wishing to come to "rich" countries in Europe, surprised you seem on the face of it to have no idea so you ask me.

Here's some IMO (not necessarily in order of importance,but just examples).

1. Humanitarian, political and economic ones;Utter breakdown of some societies,ie Libya,Afghanistan.

Doesn't just happen "over there".Look at the death of Yugoslavia in the heart of Europe not too long ago,and where the consequences (including migration and asylum)linger to this day.Was there 2 weeks ago.Seeing people still dealing with having had their homes burnt down by their neighbours because of their ethnicity/religion and forced to flee at the point of a gun with no possessions to somewhere with near zero decent job prospects brings it home a bit more than reading the papers or watching TV

2.Humanitarian issues re people drowning at sea,taking to the high seas with young kids in rickety boats etc

3.Economic migrant issues as old as the hills but now in a newer context due to globalisation.Not so different in a lot of ways to people coming to the South from Scotland and the NE in the 1930's in large numbersd and from Ireland in the 19th century,though there were no "illegality" or "nation state" issues,which raises an additional "issue".We've had our own fair share of outward "economic migrants" over the decades and centuries to lands of perceived "better opportunity"

4.Profiteering of people smugglers

5.The balance between compassion,humanitarian assistance,international obligations and immigration controls.

6.The age old battle against scaremongering,propaganda and ingrained prejudices in seeking an informed and proportionate debate,which does not mean only views I agree with.

7.Issues about applying for asylum in first "safe" country entered

8.Issues about spreading any burden equitably throughout the EU.

8.Seeing the "issues" in a global context

9.Issues about whether there are also agendas being stoked here, for not the best of reasons,which may not be immediately obvious

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2015 11.01pm)

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