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dannyboy1978 29 Oct 21 4.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You might not have noticed, but I didn't, and don't, defend extremists and their treatment of others because of religious fanaticism. So your "whataboutism" is misplaced. All I said was he was living in the wrong century. The century most of us live in is one without forced marriage, food that doesn't need its throat slit, without FGM, don't have to starve our selves for a month, that don't want to marry children. Incredibly that you have a go at a person who is against all this !! Says alot about you.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Oct 21 5.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
True but that is not the fault of Muslims. White Europeans need to start getting married in Churches again. Start having their kids christened, having their Holy Communians, their confirmations. Even funerals. Absolutely tired of going to funerals where you don't have any spiritual element to it other than perhaps 'All Things Bright and Beautiful" as the token hymn. No Muslim is taking away our heritage or our culture. Instead that comes from within our own ranks. We are surrounded by reminders of what we used to have in terms of Cathedrals. Even Hospitals named after Saints. Ditto with Schools and so on. Even the Labour Party owes more to Methodism than it does Marxism in terms of its more important influences. Our political masters would rather you buy the latest mobile phone, or waste thousands leasing a car every year than giving to your local parish or diocese. They don't want you in Churches. They want you blowing your wages and getting into debt for things you don't need. They want to convince you that what matters the most is your personal happiness, selling you a lie that it comes about by owning stuff rather than serving/helping others. So so much of what used to ground us in our local communities was Church based and that has been eroded over the decades. I am not expecting people to suddenly become born again Christians but nothing stops people from trying to regain their cultural identity as people from a Christian culture. Catholic, Orthadox, Baptist, whatever (only one I would suggest avoiding with notable exceptions is the C of E. Utterly cucked on almost every concievable level) but start seeing your local Church as the epicentre of your communities again. Yes, I share many of the concerns about the growing Islamic population in Europe but they are not, collectively, our enemy. That is solely the preserve of the Progressive Left. They are the ones who want to destroy our traditions and family structures. It might surprise you to know that I wholeheartedly support the objectives you describe of encouraging people to find satisfaction in giving support and service to others, rather than in things. Love is a much abused word, but if we can all give some, then we all benefit. Where I disagree is your route to achieving this and your diagnosis of where the blame lies that we currently don't. We have moved well beyond the point where the people as a whole are going to start to believe again. Science has blown away the cobwebs, and they aren't coming back. We need to find other ways to retain the benefits of collective responsibility and awareness of the needs of others. Humanism does that, despite your cynicism. The "Enlightenment" started this process in the developed world. It hasn't yet developed so fully in the second and third worlds. But it will. Especially if we help it. Us showing tolerance, love and understanding to all, in the best Christian tradition, will help make sure that the best human values rise to the top. So I suggest you walk the walk rather than just talk the talk! There is no plan devised by our "political masters" (who we can change ourselves, if we get organised). It's simply the consequences of capitalism and the consumerism it produces.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Oct 21 5.58pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
The century most of us live in is one without forced marriage, food that doesn't need its throat slit, without FGM, don't have to starve our selves for a month, that don't want to marry children. Incredibly that you have a go at a person who is against all this !! Says alot about you. Posting this says that you don't understand what other posters actually write.
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Teddy Eagle 29 Oct 21 6.08pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It might surprise you to know that I wholeheartedly support the objectives you describe of encouraging people to find satisfaction in giving support and service to others, rather than in things. Love is a much abused word, but if we can all give some, then we all benefit. Where I disagree is your route to achieving this and your diagnosis of where the blame lies that we currently don't. We have moved well beyond the point where the people as a whole are going to start to believe again. Science has blown away the cobwebs, and they aren't coming back. We need to find other ways to retain the benefits of collective responsibility and awareness of the needs of others. Humanism does that, despite your cynicism. The "Enlightenment" started this process in the developed world. It hasn't yet developed so fully in the second and third worlds. But it will. Especially if we help it. Us showing tolerance, love and understanding to all, in the best Christian tradition, will help make sure that the best human values rise to the top. So I suggest you walk the walk rather than just talk the talk! There is no plan devised by our "political masters" (who we can change ourselves, if we get organised). It's simply the consequences of capitalism and the consumerism it produces. Sounds like a hippie ideal. That ended up with the Manson Family.
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PalazioVecchio south pole 29 Oct 21 7.27pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
The century most of us live in is one without forced marriage, food that doesn't need its throat slit, without FGM, don't have to starve our selves for a month, that don't want to marry children. in the UK, how many women from that background have a western white boyfriend/husband ? 1% of the women ? 3% of them ? and as for the honour killings. Will there be any of those in 2022 ? Worldwide. Almost certain.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Oct 21 8.19pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Sounds like a hippie ideal. That ended up with the Manson Family. What I said was:- "We need to find other ways to retain the benefits of collective responsibility and awareness of the needs of others. Humanism does that, despite your cynicism." That doesn't imply becoming a "hippie"! We need to find ways that work. Ways that attract even the brass nosed types that post here. My primary first step would be to remove all religion from every aspect of public life, especially our schools. By statute, with no exceptions. No religious schools. No prayers in Parliament. It would be fiercely resisted and cause all kinds of temporary issues, but ultimately should lead towards the kind of society I want to see. People can believe whatever they want and worship together, but in private. No public displays. No proselytisation of any kind.
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cryrst The garden of England 29 Oct 21 8.34pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What I said was:- "We need to find other ways to retain the benefits of collective responsibility and awareness of the needs of others. Humanism does that, despite your cynicism." That doesn't imply becoming a "hippie"! We need to find ways that work. Ways that attract even the brass nosed types that post here. My primary first step would be to remove all religion from every aspect of public life, especially our schools. By statute, with no exceptions. No religious schools. No prayers in Parliament. It would be fiercely resisted and cause all kinds of temporary issues, but ultimately should lead towards the kind of society I want to see. People can believe whatever they want and worship together, but in private. No public displays. No proselytisation of any kind. Yes fiercely resisted with bombs,bullets and knives.
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Teddy Eagle 29 Oct 21 8.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What I said was:- "We need to find other ways to retain the benefits of collective responsibility and awareness of the needs of others. Humanism does that, despite your cynicism." That doesn't imply becoming a "hippie"! We need to find ways that work. Ways that attract even the brass nosed types that post here. My primary first step would be to remove all religion from every aspect of public life, especially our schools. By statute, with no exceptions. No religious schools. No prayers in Parliament. It would be fiercely resisted and cause all kinds of temporary issues, but ultimately should lead towards the kind of society I want to see. People can believe whatever they want and worship together, but in private. No public displays. No proselytisation of any kind. Why ban places of worship since most adherents are peaceable people?
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Oct 21 9.06pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Yes fiercely resisted with bombs,bullets and knives. Not many. Some. Enough to be a major concern. Which we must deal with because we have no other choice. The issue is not whether we deal with it, but how, and all I read here is that we have a problem without anyone suggesting any kind of practical solutions. Playing a blame game might make the "club" feel righteous, but it solves nothing.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Oct 21 9.15pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Why ban places of worship since most adherents are peaceable people? Might I suggest you read my comment again. I am not suggesting banning places of worship. Only public religious displays and any involvement in education. I want all our children taught our values at an early age. We require they are taught the national curriculum now, but that doesn't go far enough. They can learn their parent's values at home and in their church, mosque, temple, or synagogue. They can then decide for themselves.
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Teddy Eagle 29 Oct 21 9.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Might I suggest you read my comment again. I am not suggesting banning places of worship. Only public religious displays and any involvement in education. I want all our children taught our values at an early age. We require they are taught the national curriculum now, but that doesn't go far enough. They can learn their parent's values at home and in their church, mosque, temple, or synagogue. They can then decide for themselves. This was the part that confused me … People can believe whatever they want and worship together, but in private. No public displays.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Oct 21 10.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
This was the part that confused me … People can believe whatever they want and worship together, but in private. No public displays. Are you being deliberately obtuse? A church is a private place where believers can join together to worship. I just don't want them touching the lives of anyone else, unless they seek them out themselves. So not on the public square, which is shared with non-believers or believers in another faith. No prayers before meetings, as a small example.
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