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Hrolf The Ganger 01 Sep 21 9.56am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle No UK government has had a policy of "mass" immigration. That is just a myth perpetrated by people like you. There is a problem with illegal immigration and a policy of controlled immigration where skill shortages exist. That you think the first could be easily stopped is naive. If it was easy, it would be, as it would be very popular. That you think the second is unnecessary, and to stop it would give us an advantage in some way, is way beyond naive. It's dangerously stupid. Unless and until we ramp up our education and training provision, which would take massive investment and decades to be fruitful, we are going to need skilled people. Do you realise how complicated and expensive it is to obtain a visa to come here? Working visas are usually managed by the employer, but still need work and significant cost. Family visas are a nightmare and cost many thousands. Don't for a moment think we make it easy. It's a funny way to organise a mass immigration policy. And yet a whole town of people arrive here every year. If that is not a policy of mass immigration then I don't know what is. If you can't see that geography makes a difference to migratory routes, then I can't help you. People come here now because it is easy, and it is easy because we make that way. Any effort to stem the tide is pure theatre for political purposes. Do you seriously believe that we couldn't reduce migrants to a handful if we really wanted to? We organised the Normandy invasion under the noses of the Germans, and you think that controlling borders is impossible?
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Hrolf The Ganger

01 Sep 21 9.56am

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No UK government has had a policy of "mass" immigration. That is just a myth perpetrated by people like you. There is a problem with illegal immigration and a policy of controlled immigration where skill shortages exist.

That you think the first could be easily stopped is naive. If it was easy, it would be, as it would be very popular.

That you think the second is unnecessary, and to stop it would give us an advantage in some way, is way beyond naive. It's dangerously stupid. Unless and until we ramp up our education and training provision, which would take massive investment and decades to be fruitful, we are going to need skilled people.

Do you realise how complicated and expensive it is to obtain a visa to come here? Working visas are usually managed by the employer, but still need work and significant cost. Family visas are a nightmare and cost many thousands. Don't for a moment think we make it easy. It's a funny way to organise a mass immigration policy.

And yet a whole town of people arrive here every year.
If that is not a policy of mass immigration then I don't know what is.

If you can't see that geography makes a difference to migratory routes, then I can't help you. People come here now because it is easy, and it is easy because we make that way. Any effort to stem the tide is pure theatre for political purposes.

Do you seriously believe that we couldn't reduce migrants to a handful if we really wanted to? We organised the Normandy invasion under the noses of the Germans, and you think that controlling borders is impossible?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 10.08am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle And your evidence for this assertion is? [Link] Your link describes the opinion of one adviser, who may well have his own reasons for saying such things. It even says that it was never official policy. That some zealots might have their own personal agendas is entirely different, so he might be right, but official government policy it was not. My assertion is just that. It has never been an official policy and I know, from personal experience, just how many restrictions there are, how expensive it is and how much more complicated it has become in the last 20 years. If that is trying to open the doors, then it's a very strange way of doing it. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (01 Sep 2021 10.21am) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 10.08am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

And your evidence for this assertion is?

[Link]

Your link describes the opinion of one adviser, who may well have his own reasons for saying such things. It even says that it was never official policy. That some zealots might have their own personal agendas is entirely different, so he might be right, but official government policy it was not.

My assertion is just that. It has never been an official policy and I know, from personal experience, just how many restrictions there are, how expensive it is and how much more complicated it has become in the last 20 years. If that is trying to open the doors, then it's a very strange way of doing it.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (01 Sep 2021 10.21am)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 10.19am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And yet a whole town of people arrive here every year. If that is not a policy of mass immigration then I don't know what is. If you can't see that geography makes a difference to migratory routes, then I can't help you. People come here now because it is easy, and it is easy because we make that way. Any effort to stem the tide is pure theatre for political purposes. Do you seriously believe that we couldn't reduce migrants to a handful if we really wanted to? We organised the Normandy invasion under the noses of the Germans, and you think that controlling borders is impossible? That we have a problem with illegal immigration doesn't mean it is planned policy. Controlled immigration for skill shortages is planned, but it's not what I, or I believe most people, understand by "mass" immigration. I would categorise it as necessary immigration. Would you want to see our economy, and health services, suffer by restricting this? I think you are really naive in your belief that stopping the flow of illegals is an easy thing. There is a lot of effort put in, but devious people can find ways around most barriers. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 10.19am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And yet a whole town of people arrive here every year.
If that is not a policy of mass immigration then I don't know what is.

That we have a problem with illegal immigration doesn't mean it is planned policy. Controlled immigration for skill shortages is planned, but it's not what I, or I believe most people, understand by "mass" immigration. I would categorise it as necessary immigration. Would you want to see our economy, and health services, suffer by restricting this?

I think you are really naive in your belief that stopping the flow of illegals is an easy thing. There is a lot of effort put in, but devious people can find ways around most barriers.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 01 Sep 21 10.20am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Your link describes the opinion of one adviser, who may well have his own reasons for saying such things. It even says that it was never official policy. That some zealots might have their own personal agendas is entirely different, so he might be right, but official government policy it was not. My assertion is just that. It has never been an official policy and I know, from personal experience, just how many restrictions there are, how expensive it is and how much complicated it has become in the last 20 years. If that is trying to open the doors, then it's a very strange way of doing it. He does say it was a deliberate plan and had a driving political plan behind it. The official UK population is 9,382,211 higher than it was in 2000. The restrictions are manageable for lots of people.
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Teddy Eagle

01 Sep 21 10.20am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

My assertion is just that. It has never been an official policy and I know, from personal experience, just how many restrictions there are, how expensive it is and how much complicated it has become in the last 20 years. If that is trying to open the doors, then it's a very strange way of doing it.

He does say it was a deliberate plan and had a driving political plan behind it.
The official UK population is 9,382,211 higher than it was in 2000. The restrictions are manageable for lots of people.

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Hrolf The Ganger 01 Sep 21 11.54am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That we have a problem with illegal immigration doesn't mean it is planned policy. Controlled immigration for skill shortages is planned, but it's not what I, or I believe most people, understand by "mass" immigration. I would categorise it as necessary immigration. Would you want to see our economy, and health services, suffer by restricting this? I think you are really naive in your belief that stopping the flow of illegals is an easy thing. There is a lot of effort put in, but devious people can find ways around most barriers. Semantics. People are arriving here in greater numbers than in the entire history of Britain. Illegal immigrants make up a small but increasing number of those. The idea that we need hundreds of thousands coming here per year is a mythology. Business wants them to lower costs. The more people we have here, the more we need to service them, and the demand for resources gets ever higher. It is a vicious circle that can only end in disaster. You are too short sighted to understand that simple concept.
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Hrolf The Ganger

01 Sep 21 11.54am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That we have a problem with illegal immigration doesn't mean it is planned policy. Controlled immigration for skill shortages is planned, but it's not what I, or I believe most people, understand by "mass" immigration. I would categorise it as necessary immigration. Would you want to see our economy, and health services, suffer by restricting this?

I think you are really naive in your belief that stopping the flow of illegals is an easy thing. There is a lot of effort put in, but devious people can find ways around most barriers.

Semantics. People are arriving here in greater numbers than in the entire history of Britain. Illegal immigrants make up a small but increasing number of those.
The idea that we need hundreds of thousands coming here per year is a mythology. Business wants them to lower costs. The more people we have here, the more we need to service them, and the demand for resources gets ever higher. It is a vicious circle that can only end in disaster. You are too short sighted to understand that simple concept.

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Spiderman Horsham 01 Sep 21 12.04pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle No UK government has had a policy of "mass" immigration. That is just a myth perpetrated by people like you. There is a problem with illegal immigration and a policy of controlled immigration where skill shortages exist. That you think the first could be easily stopped is naive. If it was easy, it would be, as it would be very popular. That you think the second is unnecessary, and to stop it would give us an advantage in some way, is way beyond naive. It's dangerously stupid. Unless and until we ramp up our education and training provision, which would take massive investment and decades to be fruitful, we are going to need skilled people. Do you realise how complicated and expensive it is to obtain a visa to come here? Working visas are usually managed by the employer, but still need work and significant cost. Family visas are a nightmare and cost many thousands. Don't for a moment think we make it easy. It's a funny way to organise a mass immigration policy. When I was working as entry clearance officer in pakistan, Tony Blair issued an instruction that we should issue as many student visas as possible ( many wouldn’t normally qualify), as well as spousal visas ( again many didn’t qualify) as a more diverse population was needed. Before you say, they shouldn’t have been issued if they didn’t qualify, we had no choice as the instruction was from on high. Keith Vaz was forever “ sponsoring” applications and you could not refuse them With regard to cost, yes they are expensive but believe me, a lot easier to obtain now then previously.... fact. Of course EU family visas were always free and so much easier to obtain,as I have said before Edited by Spiderman (01 Sep 2021 12.08pm)
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Spiderman

Horsham 01 Sep 21 12.04pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That you think the first could be easily stopped is naive. If it was easy, it would be, as it would be very popular.

Do you realise how complicated and expensive it is to obtain a visa to come here? Working visas are usually managed by the employer, but still need work and significant cost. Family visas are a nightmare and cost many thousands. Don't for a moment think we make it easy. It's a funny way to organise a mass immigration policy.

When I was working as entry clearance officer in pakistan, Tony Blair issued an instruction that we should issue as many student visas as possible ( many wouldn’t normally qualify), as well as spousal visas ( again many didn’t qualify) as a more diverse population was needed.
Before you say, they shouldn’t have been issued if they didn’t qualify, we had no choice as the instruction was from on high.
Keith Vaz was forever “ sponsoring” applications and you could not refuse them
With regard to cost, yes they are expensive but believe me, a lot easier to obtain now then previously.... fact. Of course EU family visas were always free and so much easier to obtain,as I have said before

Edited by Spiderman (01 Sep 2021 12.08pm)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 4.13pm
Originally posted by Spiderman When I was working as entry clearance officer in pakistan, Tony Blair issued an instruction that we should issue as many student visas as possible ( many wouldn’t normally qualify), as well as spousal visas ( again many didn’t qualify) as a more diverse population was needed. Before you say, they shouldn’t have been issued if they didn’t qualify, we had no choice as the instruction was from on high. Keith Vaz was forever “ sponsoring” applications and you could not refuse them With regard to cost, yes they are expensive but believe me, a lot easier to obtain now then previously.... fact. Of course EU family visas were always free and so much easier to obtain,as I have said before Edited by Spiderman (01 Sep 2021 12.08pm) Surely "issuing as many as possible" would necessarily mean within the rules? PMs cannot over-ride them at will. Filling our Universities with fee paying students could easily have been the motivation. I can assure you that in my own experience it is a great deal harder, as well as very much more expensive, than 20 years ago. 20 years ago it was simply a friendly interview at an Embassy. Nowadays, it's all at arms length, with documents checked by commercial agencies (for stupidly high fees) and everything processed remotely. It takes ages, and some of the refusals are spurious in the extreme. I have personal experience of a refusal which was appealed and overturned by an immigration Judge, who had very hard words for the Home Office and awarded costs against them. Still waiting for them, 5 years later. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 4.13pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Edited by Spiderman (01 Sep 2021 12.08pm)

Surely "issuing as many as possible" would necessarily mean within the rules? PMs cannot over-ride them at will. Filling our Universities with fee paying students could easily have been the motivation.

I can assure you that in my own experience it is a great deal harder, as well as very much more expensive, than 20 years ago. 20 years ago it was simply a friendly interview at an Embassy. Nowadays, it's all at arms length, with documents checked by commercial agencies (for stupidly high fees) and everything processed remotely. It takes ages, and some of the refusals are spurious in the extreme.

I have personal experience of a refusal which was appealed and overturned by an immigration Judge, who had very hard words for the Home Office and awarded costs against them. Still waiting for them, 5 years later.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 01 Sep 21 4.18pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Surely "issuing as many as possible" would necessarily mean within the rules? PMs cannot over-ride them at will. Filling our Universities with fee paying students could easily have been the motivation. I can assure you that in my own experience it is a great deal harder, as well as very much more expensive, than 20 years ago. 20 years ago it was simply a friendly interview at an Embassy. Nowadays, it's all at arms length, with documents checked by commercial agencies (for stupidly high fees) and everything processed remotely. It takes ages, and some of the refusals are spurious in the extreme. I have personal experience of a refusal which was appealed and overturned by an immigration Judge, who had very hard words for the Home Office and awarded costs against them. Still waiting for them, 5 years later. Do share the details. I can't wait.
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Hrolf The Ganger

01 Sep 21 4.18pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I have personal experience of a refusal which was appealed and overturned by an immigration Judge, who had very hard words for the Home Office and awarded costs against them. Still waiting for them, 5 years later.

Do share the details. I can't wait.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 01 Sep 21 4.40pm
Wisbech last walked through London & by council blocks 20 or more years ago. Hasn’t a bl00dy clue. Doesn’t want one other than his own sheltered view from Cornwall. Bl00dy Cornwall. Incredulous nause. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 01 Sep 21 4.40pm

Wisbech last walked through London & by council blocks 20 or more years ago. Hasn’t a bl00dy clue. Doesn’t want one other than his own sheltered view from Cornwall. Bl00dy Cornwall. Incredulous nause.

COYP

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 10.33pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Do share the details. I can't wait. On here, with you? No chance! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 10.33pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Do share the details. I can't wait.

On here, with you? No chance!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 10.44pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Wisbech last walked through London & by council blocks 20 or more years ago. Hasn’t a bl00dy clue. Doesn’t want one other than his own sheltered view from Cornwall. Bl00dy Cornwall. Incredulous nause. Untrue. I last lived in London more than 50 years ago but lived in the suburbs for many years afterwards, and have family connections which mean I stay in touch. I have lived in many parts of the UK, and abroad. I have seen deprivation first hand, far worse than anything you will see in London. Retiring to Cornwall doesn't mean your eyes are closed or your brain ceases to function. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 21 10.44pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Untrue. I last lived in London more than 50 years ago but lived in the suburbs for many years afterwards, and have family connections which mean I stay in touch.

I have lived in many parts of the UK, and abroad. I have seen deprivation first hand, far worse than anything you will see in London.

Retiring to Cornwall doesn't mean your eyes are closed or your brain ceases to function.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 02 Sep 21 12.17am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Untrue. I last lived in London more than 50 years ago but lived in the suburbs for many years afterwards, and have family connections which mean I stay in touch. I have lived in many parts of the UK, and abroad. I have seen deprivation first hand, far worse than anything you will see in London. Retiring to Cornwall doesn't mean your eyes are closed or your brain ceases to function. But it does mean you don’t understand drivers of problems in the uk and cities in particular. You have no idea, but lecture anyway. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 02 Sep 21 12.17am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Untrue. I last lived in London more than 50 years ago but lived in the suburbs for many years afterwards, and have family connections which mean I stay in touch.

I have lived in many parts of the UK, and abroad. I have seen deprivation first hand, far worse than anything you will see in London.

Retiring to Cornwall doesn't mean your eyes are closed or your brain ceases to function.

But it does mean you don’t understand drivers of problems in the uk and cities in particular. You have no idea, but lecture anyway.

COYP

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