This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
  Hrolf The Ganger  11 Jul 16 10.10pm |
  |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Kermit8
You also sound like you think we will hold the aces when it comes to negotiations. *bluster klaxon* No! No, I won't have that! There's a bloke in Eastbourne.
|
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
 |
| ta11berg birmingham 11 Jul 16 10.55pm |
|
|---|---|
|
All this talk of negotiation after Article 50 is hilarious. At that point we will no longer be a part of the EU the only negotiation will be between the other 27 states, we do not get a look in.Of course for our jolly Brexiteers this does not matter as they will have their country back, whatever that may be worth,can't remember the great days of the early 70s,I can remember a country desperate to join a flourishing Europe,why else the continuing embarrassment of grovelling to de Gaulle wonder who we will turn to now
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Jul 16 11.05pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by cardiff eagle
Did all you remainers expect a plan overnight? How was that going to happen when we can't negotiate with the EU until we have invoked the article? There is a plan and that is to negotiate on key issues. This will happen shortly when May is in and invokes the article. It's not an overnight process and pointing to the fact nothing has happened yet as a way of backing your argument is lazy. There ought to have been a plan BEFORE asking the people to vote leave. Instead they wove them a web of lies and unattainable promises. All but the blow hards will get pretty hacked off with that pretty quickly. May will not invoke article 50 very quickly. If she tries to do so without parliamentary approval she would immediately face a crisis of her own making, a vote of no confidence and legal challenges. For sure she will want to take soundings among other EU leaders and allow things to settle first. I do not see any prospect of that happening before the Autumn and I see every prospect of a general election following it to gain approval for an arrangement which will surely disappoint many leave voters and all of the blow hards.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 11 Jul 16 11.22pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are just a little rabble rouser who's only mission in life is to promote that pathetic, has been, failure of a party currently know as Labour. I hope that Labour do continue with their anti Brexit dogma because it will spell their total annihilation in former strongholds. So no clear answer to my assertions, just a bit of playing the man.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 11 Jul 16 11.24pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Most of us will just be happy with that for starters. When we begin negotiations, I hope we do it with some balls and not the sort of lily livered attitude displayed by Remainers. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Jul 2016 6.03pm) So you don't erm know what the plan is then? How do you know if it will be anything like you want.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
cardiff eagle  11 Jul 16 11.29pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by ta11berg
All this talk of negotiation after Article 50 is hilarious. At that point we will no longer be a part of the EU the only negotiation will be between the other 27 states, we do not get a look in.Of course for our jolly Brexiteers this does not matter as they will have their country back, whatever that may be worth,can't remember the great days of the early 70s,I can remember a country desperate to join a flourishing Europe,why else the continuing embarrassment of grovelling to de Gaulle wonder who we will turn to now Um wrong! Article 50 being invoked leads to a two year process in which negotiations take place. This has been confirmed by the EU and us. Negotiations CANNOT take place until it's invoked. Again this has been confirmed. During these two years, were still in the EU. In the 70s people voted for access to the common market, not a European superstate. People also voted for an EU which was 9 members I believe, not 28. Edited by cardiff eagle (11 Jul 2016 11.29pm)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| cardiff eagle 11 Jul 16 11.31pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There ought to have been a plan BEFORE asking the people to vote leave. Instead they wove them a web of lies and unattainable promises. All but the blow hards will get pretty hacked off with that pretty quickly. May will not invoke article 50 very quickly. If she tries to do so without parliamentary approval she would immediately face a crisis of her own making, a vote of no confidence and legal challenges. For sure she will want to take soundings among other EU leaders and allow things to settle first. I do not see any prospect of that happening before the Autumn and I see every prospect of a general election following it to gain approval for an arrangement which will surely disappoint many leave voters and all of the blow hards. A large part of the plan is dependent on what we can negotiate with the EU. It's impossible to have that plan confirmed until after the event. The plan is to negotiate on various issues....
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Jul 16 11.56pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by cardiff eagle
A large part of the plan is dependent on what we can negotiate with the EU. It's impossible to have that plan confirmed until after the event. The plan is to negotiate on various issues.... What plan? The one that says you can have your cake and eat it? You know, the one that promised open access to the single market whilst stopping the freedom of movement of EU citizens? In other words. LIES. Plans cannot be built on lies. Deceit is built on lies and no amount of negotiation can erase those lies. Sure the detail could not have been worked out but the framework ought to have been, and the people given an honest choice. People have voted for promises that could never be kept. They have been sold the biggest political confidence trick ever attempted. If Blair deserves condemnation over the Iraq war then so do Farage, Gove, Johnson and Leadsom over this. Not for nothing are they all now burying their heads in the sand and hoping to avoid the political fall out. At least May can say she voted to remain.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| cardiff eagle 12 Jul 16 7.26am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What plan? The one that says you can have your cake and eat it? You know, the one that promised open access to the single market whilst stopping the freedom of movement of EU citizens? In other words. LIES. Plans cannot be built on lies. Deceit is built on lies and no amount of negotiation can erase those lies. Sure the detail could not have been worked out but the framework ought to have been, and the people given an honest choice. People have voted for promises that could never be kept. They have been sold the biggest political confidence trick ever attempted. If Blair deserves condemnation over the Iraq war then so do Farage, Gove, Johnson and Leadsom over this. Not for nothing are they all now burying their heads in the sand and hoping to avoid the political fall out. At least May can say she voted to remain. Personally, i wasn't fussed which way the referendum went so don't mind what happens but surely you can see there is more chance of access to single markets and limiting freedom of movement outside the EU than in it. We tried changing the EU from within and it failed; now it's time to try it from outside. If we have to accept freedom of movement and in doing so get access to the single market but then have to contribute slightly less, get rid of EU laws, be allowed to make our own trade deals with other countries, then to me it'll be a success as its better than what we currently get.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jul 16 8.00am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
This is daft. It was Cameron's Tory government who allowed a referendum with the expectation of winning a remain vote. Since they have unexpectedly lost it is no surprise that electing a new leader and organising a negotiation with Europe is taking some time. Obvious really for those who aren't blinkered. Facts aren't daft Hrolf, they are neutral. The fact that there still has been no plan or clear strategy articulated at any stage by Leave unequivocally proves the fact that all they had (and have) is rhetoric. There is no program to get with or even an embryonic outline to give the people. Who's wearing the blinkers?
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 12 Jul 16 9.02am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by cardiff eagle
Personally, i wasn't fussed which way the referendum went so don't mind what happens but surely you can see there is more chance of access to single markets and limiting freedom of movement outside the EU than in it. We tried changing the EU from within and it failed; now it's time to try it from outside. If we have to accept freedom of movement and in doing so get access to the single market but then have to contribute slightly less, get rid of EU laws, be allowed to make our own trade deals with other countries, then to me it'll be a success as its better than what we currently get. If that kind of compromise was on the ballot paper it probably would have been accepted by most of the voters, but I doubt very much whether it will be on the table. It does not though come close to what the leavers claimed and would still cause the die hards much anguish. What you say only confirms what I have said. The referendum result was based on lies.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| cardiff eagle 12 Jul 16 9.11am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
If that kind of compromise was on the ballot paper it probably would have been accepted by most of the voters, but I doubt very much whether it will be on the table. It does not though come close to what the leavers claimed and would still cause the die hards much anguish. What you say only confirms what I have said. The referendum result was based on lies. The remain campaign was built on lies too! Don't forget that. I'm still waiting for the Armageddon they threatened to occur! That kind of compromise will be on the table. The EU needs us as much as we need them. That's not arrogant, it's just true. Merkel has said as much. What is it you remainers are actually upset about though? Is it that you liked free movement? Is it you think the EU laws are good? Is it solely single market? I don't really get what it is! If it's single market and free movement only and then that happens as part of a deal, what would the remaining problem be?
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / RegisterNew users
Registration is now on our new message board
Existing users
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
Sponsors
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.