Afghanistan and use of media warfare

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Afghanistan and use of media warfare

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Stirlingsays 26 Aug 21 10.35pm
Originally posted by cryrst If that happens and once a few hundred foreigners are held hostage the west will go back. If that happens the rule book has to go. No you shoot I shoot. The woke might be forced to change their thought process. Who would have thought that tearing down statues and cancelling people for nasty words etc could lead to WW3 In a different age I think that would happen. I don't think it happens now. The kind of men in leadership positions just don't view the world the same way. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Aug 21 10.35pm

Originally posted by cryrst

If that happens and once a few hundred foreigners are held hostage the west will go back. If that happens the rule book has to go. No you shoot I shoot. The woke might be forced to change their thought process. Who would have thought that tearing down statues and cancelling people for nasty words etc could lead to WW3

In a different age I think that would happen.

I don't think it happens now. The kind of men in leadership positions just don't view the world the same way.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay UK 26 Aug 21 10.37pm
Originally posted by Matov Just seen this briefing from the Pentagon... Top US commander Gen Kenneth McKenzie confirmed that 12 US military personnel were killed and 15 injured in the attacks in Kabul. Gen McKenzie said: US authorities believe the Islamic State group (IS-K) was behind the attacks and the threat of further incidents is "very real" These might take the form of vehicle-borne suicide bombings or rocket attacks The US military is co-ordinating and sharing information with the Taliban to prevent a repeat US forces believe the Taliban have already prevented some attacks from taking place Isis-K has shot at military aircraft "without effect", but the US military does not believe they possess man-portable air defence systems (Manpads) The Pentagon does not believe that additional troops are necessary to secure Hamid Karzai International Airport Drones and other aerial systems are being used to monitor events and dissuade further attacks... See what I mean now? Edited by Matov (26 Aug 2021 9.26pm) Personally I think an attack like this was always likely and a way of ensuring the US exit went ahead. There's no masking how disastrously this has been handled though, and the tails between their legs exit is humiliating. Not to mention the many decent people we are throwing to the wolves. Leaving was always going to be a disaster whenever it happened because essentially being there in the first place was culturally ill fitting. Honestly though, all things considered with the possible consequences it may have been better at this point to just remain there permanently.
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BlueJay

UK 26 Aug 21 10.37pm

Originally posted by Matov

Just seen this briefing from the Pentagon...

Top US commander Gen Kenneth McKenzie confirmed that 12 US military personnel were killed and 15 injured in the attacks in Kabul.

Gen McKenzie said:

US authorities believe the Islamic State group (IS-K) was behind the attacks and the threat of further incidents is "very real"

These might take the form of vehicle-borne suicide bombings or rocket attacks

The US military is co-ordinating and sharing information with the Taliban to prevent a repeat

US forces believe the Taliban have already prevented some attacks from taking place

Isis-K has shot at military aircraft "without effect", but the US military does not believe they possess man-portable air defence systems (Manpads)

The Pentagon does not believe that additional troops are necessary to secure Hamid Karzai International Airport
Drones and other aerial systems are being used to monitor events and dissuade further attacks...

See what I mean now?

Edited by Matov (26 Aug 2021 9.26pm)

Personally I think an attack like this was always likely and a way of ensuring the US exit went ahead. There's no masking how disastrously this has been handled though, and the tails between their legs exit is humiliating. Not to mention the many decent people we are throwing to the wolves. Leaving was always going to be a disaster whenever it happened because essentially being there in the first place was culturally ill fitting. Honestly though, all things considered with the possible consequences it may have been better at this point to just remain there permanently.

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Stirlingsays 26 Aug 21 10.43pm
Originally posted by Matov I disagree. Any politician who reaches the highest office is literally willing to kill to do so if it helps them. Biden has plenty of blood on his hands already. And let's not forget that the CIA helped flood the US with cocaine hence setting off the crack epidemic which caused the death of possibly millions, along with so much misery and mayhem. These people are literally capable of anything if it helps them achieve their own aims. A few US soldiers' lives are nothing to these people. All about the optics. And here we have US troops dying side by side with the Taleban, all involved in trying to help people. Making the Taleban now an 'honourable' enemy whilst helping demonise a new horrific one. Who by the way, were being funded and supplied by the US and the UK over in Syria. It stinks. So what you're suggesting is that the CIA are more motivated to pointlessly convince some anti westerner to blow themselves up because you think it promotes some media narrative about an 'honourable enemy'....A narrative that isn't exactly flowing from most and which doesn't work anyway. You believe that over the far more realistic situation of an anti westerner taking their possibly last remaining opportunity to kill western troops. Sure, I regard the CIA as a negative, and I'm sure they still have their fingers in lots of immoral pies, but for me this is a case of occam's razor. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Aug 2021 10.44pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Aug 21 10.43pm

Originally posted by Matov

I disagree. Any politician who reaches the highest office is literally willing to kill to do so if it helps them. Biden has plenty of blood on his hands already.

And let's not forget that the CIA helped flood the US with cocaine hence setting off the crack epidemic which caused the death of possibly millions, along with so much misery and mayhem. These people are literally capable of anything if it helps them achieve their own aims.

A few US soldiers' lives are nothing to these people. All about the optics. And here we have US troops dying side by side with the Taleban, all involved in trying to help people. Making the Taleban now an 'honourable' enemy whilst helping demonise a new horrific one.

Who by the way, were being funded and supplied by the US and the UK over in Syria.

It stinks.

So what you're suggesting is that the CIA are more motivated to pointlessly convince some anti westerner to blow themselves up because you think it promotes some media narrative about an 'honourable enemy'....A narrative that isn't exactly flowing from most and which doesn't work anyway.

You believe that over the far more realistic situation of an anti westerner taking their possibly last remaining opportunity to kill western troops.

Sure, I regard the CIA as a negative, and I'm sure they still have their fingers in lots of immoral pies, but for me this is a case of occam's razor.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Aug 2021 10.44pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay UK 26 Aug 21 10.45pm
Quote Biden: "More now from President Biden's address. "To those that carried out this attack, as well as anyone else who wishes America harm know this: "We will not forgive. We will not forget. We will hunt you down and make you pay." "We will not be deterred by terrorists. We will not stop the mission. We will continue the evacuation," he says, adding that the US will retaliate against today's attackers. " What, hunt them down by fleeing the country? Comedy hour at Joes. Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.46pm)
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BlueJay

UK 26 Aug 21 10.45pm

Quote Biden:

"More now from President Biden's address.

"To those that carried out this attack, as well as anyone else who wishes America harm know this:

"We will not forgive. We will not forget. We will hunt you down and make you pay."

"We will not be deterred by terrorists. We will not stop the mission. We will continue the evacuation," he says, adding that the US will retaliate against today's attackers. "

What, hunt them down by fleeing the country? Comedy hour at Joes.

Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.46pm)

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Stirlingsays 26 Aug 21 10.48pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Quote Biden: "More now from President Biden's address. "To those that carried out this attack, as well as anyone else who wishes America harm know this: "We will not forgive. We will not forget. We will hunt you down and make you pay." "We will not be deterred by terrorists. We will not stop the mission. We will continue the evacuation," he says, adding that the US will retaliate against today's attackers. " What, hunt them down by fleeing the country? Comedy hour at Joes. Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.46pm) He's scripted and they know that most Americans won't think that hard. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Aug 21 10.48pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Quote Biden:

"More now from President Biden's address.

"To those that carried out this attack, as well as anyone else who wishes America harm know this:

"We will not forgive. We will not forget. We will hunt you down and make you pay."

"We will not be deterred by terrorists. We will not stop the mission. We will continue the evacuation," he says, adding that the US will retaliate against today's attackers. "

What, hunt them down by fleeing the country? Comedy hour at Joes.

Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.46pm)

He's scripted and they know that most Americans won't think that hard.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay UK 26 Aug 21 10.53pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays He's scripted and they know that most Americans won't think that hard. Whoever wrote that is about an addled as Biden . But yes, I get that it's a good idea that he is scripted considering how weird things get when he's actually allowed to offer his own thoughts. Personally I can't see him lasting the four years, but then in a Matov-esque way looking at things, perhaps that was the plan from the very beginning. Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.54pm)
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BlueJay

UK 26 Aug 21 10.53pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

He's scripted and they know that most Americans won't think that hard.

Whoever wrote that is about an addled as Biden . But yes, I get that it's a good idea that he is scripted considering how weird things get when he's actually allowed to offer his own thoughts. Personally I can't see him lasting the four years, but then in a Matov-esque way looking at things, perhaps that was the plan from the very beginning.

Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.54pm)

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Matov 26 Aug 21 10.53pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays So what you're suggesting is that the CIA are more motivated to pointlessly convince some anti westerner to blow themselves up because you think it promotes some media narrative about an 'honourable enemy'....A narrative that isn't exactly flowing from most and which doesn't work anyway. You believe that over the far more realistic situation of an anti westerner taking their possibly last remaining opportunity to kill western troops. Sure, I regard the CIA as a negative, and I'm sure they still have their fingers in lots of immoral pies, but for me this is a case of occam's razor. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Aug 2021 10.44pm) Lets looks at this. Firstly we have this incredible Taleban army. Who seemingly without any effort, take over an entire country in a matter of weeks with no air support, no heavy artillary, no logistics network and so on. Super Soldiers capable of real blitzkrieg s*. But now, having been warning of an immient attack, a suicide bomber gets through these brave and fearless warriors and near enough to kill 12 US soliders and loads of others as well? And how does the US respond? By saying how it is sharing intelligence with the Taleban. And how the Taleban have actually prevented attacks (and this is from the Pentagon tonight). Followed up by Biden saying that despite these terror attacks they will not be leaving the airport until the date the Taleban told them to leave it on? Come on. You are smart enough to see through this bulls*. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Aug 21 10.53pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You believe that over the far more realistic situation of an anti westerner taking their possibly last remaining opportunity to kill western troops.

Sure, I regard the CIA as a negative, and I'm sure they still have their fingers in lots of immoral pies, but for me this is a case of occam's razor.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Aug 2021 10.44pm)

Lets looks at this.

Firstly we have this incredible Taleban army. Who seemingly without any effort, take over an entire country in a matter of weeks with no air support, no heavy artillary, no logistics network and so on.

Super Soldiers capable of real blitzkrieg s***.

But now, having been warning of an immient attack, a suicide bomber gets through these brave and fearless warriors and near enough to kill 12 US soliders and loads of others as well?

And how does the US respond? By saying how it is sharing intelligence with the Taleban. And how the Taleban have actually prevented attacks (and this is from the Pentagon tonight).

Followed up by Biden saying that despite these terror attacks they will not be leaving the airport until the date the Taleban told them to leave it on?

Come on. You are smart enough to see through this bulls***.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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BlueJay UK 26 Aug 21 10.57pm
Without getting to conspiratorial about it, I do wonder if in a way things were getting too stablefor a time. As in was the cost of staying really greater than the potential multifaceted cost of leaving? Part of me wonders whether this is just the setup for further US military action on a much wider scale rather than ending something. Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.57pm)
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BlueJay

UK 26 Aug 21 10.57pm

Without getting to conspiratorial about it, I do wonder if in a way things were getting too stablefor a time. As in was the cost of staying really greater than the potential multifaceted cost of leaving? Part of me wonders whether this is just the setup for further US military action on a much wider scale rather than ending something.

Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.57pm)

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Stirlingsays 26 Aug 21 11.01pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Whoever wrote that is about an addled as Biden . But yes, I get that it's a good idea that he is scripted considering how weird things get when he's actually allowed to offer his own thoughts. Personally I can't see him lasting the four years, but then in a Matov-esque way looking at things, perhaps that was the plan from the beginning. It certainly seems that they have decided to stick it out. I think they know that Harris would be even worse for 2022 and that a sizable number of Americans are just happy to have the troops out and will ignore the press. Still the lies that Biden is happy to speak would make even Trump proud. A lot of reputational damage is being done but it seems they are going to try to limp on. I'd prefer Clinton to this, at least she has brains, If I were them I'd find some way of sticking Buttigieg in there.. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Aug 2021 11.03pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Aug 21 11.01pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

It certainly seems that they have decided to stick it out.

I think they know that Harris would be even worse for 2022 and that a sizable number of Americans are just happy to have the troops out and will ignore the press.

Still the lies that Biden is happy to speak would make even Trump proud.

A lot of reputational damage is being done but it seems they are going to try to limp on.

I'd prefer Clinton to this, at least she has brains, If I were them I'd find some way of sticking Buttigieg in there..

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Aug 2021 11.03pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Matov 26 Aug 21 11.05pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Without getting to conspiratorial about it, I do wonder if in a way things were getting too stablefor a time. As in was the cost of staying really greater than the potential multifaceted cost of leaving? Part of me wonders whether this is just the setup for further US military action on a much wider scale rather than ending something. Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.57pm) It's all about creating chaos. Iraq, Libya, Syria (which actually has managed to resist) and now Afghanistan. And that is fully on silver-foil hated but there is no other logical explanation. With the end game being the Saudi's get to keep their Wabbist loons focused on foreign adventures and the Israelis are a step nearer to effecting a massive population transfer of millions of Palestinians over to Europe. The first part of my claim about the Saudis is documented policy, since the end of WW2. With the second part about the Israelis absolute tin-foil hat stuff but trust me, it's coming within the next 10 years. Just need a Europe so utterly cucked that when somebody does suggest that the kindest thing to do is 'liberate' those poor Palestinians from the cruel dominance of those pesky Israelis, then it will be cheered on by all the usual suspects. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Aug 21 11.05pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Edited by BlueJay (26 Aug 2021 10.57pm)

It's all about creating chaos. Iraq, Libya, Syria (which actually has managed to resist) and now Afghanistan. And that is fully on silver-foil hated but there is no other logical explanation.

With the end game being the Saudi's get to keep their Wabbist loons focused on foreign adventures and the Israelis are a step nearer to effecting a massive population transfer of millions of Palestinians over to Europe.

The first part of my claim about the Saudis is documented policy, since the end of WW2. With the second part about the Israelis absolute tin-foil hat stuff but trust me, it's coming within the next 10 years.

Just need a Europe so utterly cucked that when somebody does suggest that the kindest thing to do is 'liberate' those poor Palestinians from the cruel dominance of those pesky Israelis, then it will be cheered on by all the usual suspects.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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BlueJay UK 26 Aug 21 11.08pm
Originally posted by Matov It's all about creating chaos. Iraq, Libya, Syria (which actually has managed to resist) and now Afghanistan. And that is fully on silver-foil hated but there is no other logical explanation. With the end game being the Saudi's get to keep their Wabbist loons focused on foreign adventures and the Israelis are a step nearer to effecting a massive population transfer of millions of Palestinians over to Europe. The first part of my claim about the Saudis is documented policy, since the end of WW2. With the second part about the Israelis absolute tin-foil hat stuff but trust me, it's coming within the next 10 years. Just need a Europe so utterly cucked that when somebody does suggest that the kindest thing to do is 'liberate' those poor Palestinians from the cruel dominance of those pesky Israelis, then it will be cheered on by all the usual suspects. When you look at the wild disconnects between our stated intentions in the middle east and how it pans out every single time, I'm inclined to think that it some respects you may have a point. I just feel had for ordinary people in these countries and also our soldiers putting their lives on the lines for ideals that are hijacked and misused rather than appreciated.
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BlueJay

UK 26 Aug 21 11.08pm

Originally posted by Matov

It's all about creating chaos. Iraq, Libya, Syria (which actually has managed to resist) and now Afghanistan. And that is fully on silver-foil hated but there is no other logical explanation.

When you look at the wild disconnects between our stated intentions in the middle east and how it pans out every single time, I'm inclined to think that it some respects you may have a point. I just feel had for ordinary people in these countries and also our soldiers putting their lives on the lines for ideals that are hijacked and misused rather than appreciated.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 26 Aug 21 11.13pm
Originally posted by Matov Lets looks at this. Firstly we have this incredible Taleban army. Who seemingly without any effort, take over an entire country in a matter of weeks with no air support, no heavy artillary, no logistics network and so on. Super Soldiers capable of real blitzkrieg s*. But now, having been warning of an immient attack, a suicide bomber gets through these brave and fearless warriors and near enough to kill 12 US soliders and loads of others as well? And how does the US respond? By saying how it is sharing intelligence with the Taleban. And how the Taleban have actually prevented attacks (and this is from the Pentagon tonight). Followed up by Biden saying that despite these terror attacks they will not be leaving the airport until the date the Taleban told them to leave it on? Come on. You are smart enough to see through this bulls. I think you’re going to be correct about a lot here. But Europe wanting to take on Israel to free the Palestinians? Seriously? COYP*
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 26 Aug 21 11.13pm

Originally posted by Matov

Lets looks at this.

Super Soldiers capable of real blitzkrieg s***.

But now, having been warning of an immient attack, a suicide bomber gets through these brave and fearless warriors and near enough to kill 12 US soliders and loads of others as well?

And how does the US respond? By saying how it is sharing intelligence with the Taleban. And how the Taleban have actually prevented attacks (and this is from the Pentagon tonight).

Followed up by Biden saying that despite these terror attacks they will not be leaving the airport until the date the Taleban told them to leave it on?

Come on. You are smart enough to see through this bulls***.

I think you’re going to be correct about a lot here. But Europe wanting to take on Israel to free the Palestinians? Seriously?

COYP

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