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Tom-the-eagle  Croydon 11 Feb 21 6.22pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Wasting your breath. The UK is a third party country, the rules for third party countries were devised by the UK itself in setting up the single market. The EU is now a competitor. That's what the UK chose, it was not wanted by Europe. The UK loses everything and gains nothing, by its own actions.
Oh but the UK gains much. No more open door immigration pushing down wages and pushing up rents. Much better for the working man, however this truth often gets conveniently forgotten.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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 Stirlingsays 11 Feb 21 6.29pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Wasting your breath. The UK is a third party country, the rules for third party countries were devised by the UK itself in setting up the single market. The EU is now a competitor. That's what the UK chose, it was not wanted by Europe. The UK loses everything and gains nothing, by its own actions.
I would vote for it a hundred times again.....a million times if I could. The UK gained everything and you are still living here.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| DanH SW2 11 Feb 21 6.37pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I would vote for it a hundred times again.....a million times if I could. The UK gained everything and you are still living here. What has it gained exactly? Still waiting for these gains to become clear.
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 11 Feb 21 6.42pm |
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
Oh but the UK gains much. No more open door immigration pushing down wages and pushing up rents. Much better for the working man, however this truth often gets conveniently forgotten. Theoretically, yes. Let's see how that one pans out though. I'm not so optimistic that the 'working man', or in fact anyone on average wages will end up benefitting as much as you think. But time will tell.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 11 Feb 21 6.44pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I would vote for it a hundred times again.....a million times if I could. The UK gained everything and you are still living here. Everything is probably a bit strong – also let's just wait and see what the actual outcome of the theoretical gains are shall we. We're already off to a pretty poor start. Plenty of time to bring it round though, let's just hope a lot of people and businesses don't go to the wall before then.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Matov 11 Feb 21 7.23pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Everything is probably a bit strong – also let's just wait and see what the actual outcome of the theoretical gains are shall we. We're already off to a pretty poor start. Plenty of time to bring it round though, let's just hope a lot of people and businesses don't go to the wall before then. A fair point. I would disagree with your overall assessment of it being a 'poor' start (personally I see the behaviour of the EU in the last few weeks as absolute confirmation of why I voted Leave) but it is clear there are issues that are cause of some concern. Personally, I think no genuine assessment can be made until at least the middle of 2023 but also have enough self-awarness around my own prejudices to accept that you might feel qualified to pass judgement before then. Problem is, how do you quantify it? Purely financial? Unemployment? Wider popularity around the issue? Me, I want to see the EU destroyed. Consigned to nothing more than a s***ty footnote in history. I believe it is the biggest single cause of misery in Europe since WW2. And I would happily put up with rationing and a whole host of other measures if it meant the UK was free of it. A thoroughly loathsome and hateful organisation. It needs to go. Or such a radical overhaul that it bears no resemblance to what it was. With the removal of the EU Commission a task that would be seen as a service to humanity.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Stirlingsays 12 Feb 21 12.56am |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Everything is probably a bit strong – also let's just wait and see what the actual outcome of the theoretical gains are shall we. We're already off to a pretty poor start. Plenty of time to bring it round though, let's just hope a lot of people and businesses don't go to the wall before then. Your lens appears purely financial in this matter. If the EU question were one of pure finances....while there is an theoretical argument to compete against the EU as a European form of 'Singapore' variant....in a financial sense I would have never have voted for it. The real leave argument was a social, immigration and identarian one. For those that dislike those concepts I understand how Brexit will always be uncomfortable. I also appreciate that how the government have chosen to interpret the Brexit vote is deliberately different from the leave vote's general intent. No one voted leave to increase immigration from outside Europe. In several senses this is directly against the best interests of the working class, who were by far the largest element of the leave vote. However, that's the policy Johnson has decided to pursue.....as the old saying goes, 'the best way to control the opposition is to lead it'. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Feb 2021 1.00am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Beanyboysmd 12 Feb 21 4.44am |
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Originally posted by Matov
LOL. We have everything to gain. But it requires boldness. No more pissing about with anything that gives the EU any kind of leverage over us. That is the point. The EU is a hostile entity. It wants to hurt the UK in any way it can. Which is fine. My ire is solely aimed at anybody who thought differently. But the UK needs to act accordingly. And it needs to happen soon. I am a remainer but I was still quietly optimistic. I did think "Well if we have good leadership, and really good negotiators, and a clear vision, we might be able to thrive but we need to get the start right..." Unfortunatly you were right, we did have everything to gain, and with boldness we might have gained something, but we havn't and we havnt for a very long time. We over the last decade or 2 have had leadership of such utter ineptitude that we have had to convince ourselvers that outsiders have to be the cause of whats gone wrong and I cant see that changing whoever is in power. We are going to have to see it all through to the bitter end but with all countries around the world forming their own trading blocks and major nations becoming their own private trading bocks that dont require imports, we have not chosen a good time to start this kind of major project probably don't have the right people to manage it anyway...
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| DanH SW2 12 Feb 21 7.10am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Your lens appears purely financial in this matter. If the EU question were one of pure finances....while there is an theoretical argument to compete against the EU as a European form of 'Singapore' variant....in a financial sense I would have never have voted for it. The real leave argument was a social, immigration and identarian one. For those that dislike those concepts I understand how Brexit will always be uncomfortable. I also appreciate that how the government have chosen to interpret the Brexit vote is deliberately different from the leave vote's general intent. No one voted leave to increase immigration from outside Europe. In several senses this is directly against the best interests of the working class, who were by far the largest element of the leave vote. However, that's the policy Johnson has decided to pursue.....as the old saying goes, 'the best way to control the opposition is to lead it'. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Feb 2021 1.00am) This is what frustrates me the most. You were kicking at the wrong beast.
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| Spiderman Horsham 12 Feb 21 7.31am |
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Originally posted by DanH
This is what frustrates me the most. You were kicking at the wrong beast. The main reason I voted leave was, I did not like the way the EU were controlling everything and the way they conducted themselves ( I am talking about the unelected bureaucrats). Their behaviour over the last few weeks has made me fell even better about my vote. What frustrates me is the remainers who will still not criticise them. We are not stopping EU nationals living/ working here, over 5m have registered with another 4 months to go. Perhaps the EU will reciprocate Edited by Spiderman (12 Feb 2021 7.33am)
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| DanH SW2 12 Feb 21 7.40am |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
The main reason I voted leave was, I did not like the way the EU were controlling everything and the way they conducted themselves ( I am talking about the unelected bureaucrats). Their behaviour over the last few weeks has made me fell even better about my vote. What frustrates me is the remainers who will still not criticise them. We are not stopping EU nationals living/ working here, over 5m have registered with another 4 months to go. Perhaps the EU will reciprocate Edited by Spiderman (12 Feb 2021 7.33am) See, that's a fine reason. Specific reasons regarding the EU, not some flimsy anti-immigration rhetoric founded on a misunderstanding of the previous EU rules which we had signed up to and had flexibility over how to implement. I don't think even the staunchest remainer would suggest that the EU cannot be criticised. There is a lot wrong with it - their recent behaviour over the vaccines just the most recent example. Historically it's treatment of Greece has been extremely unpalatable. Overall though being a part of it, and an influential part of it at that, is far preferable to being totally on the outside, trying to punch above our weight in a global world. Needing to rely on our neighbours for a myriad of reasons is not going to go away. It's far more difficult to do that on the outside. Britain isn't as important on the global playing field as some may think it still is. If you speak to people is Europe, the US, Asia - it's not the huge global power it once was. We're not going to be able to dictate our own terms and expect other nations to jump.
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| Stirlingsays 12 Feb 21 7.53am |
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Originally posted by DanH
This is what frustrates me the most. You were kicking at the wrong beast. No I wasn't. I'll vote against any globalist 'minded' entity. They are the enemy of the working and lower middle classes.....which is the majority of people. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Feb 2021 7.54am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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