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Israel / Palestine

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 12.26pm
Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 11.59am What is it that, to my mind at least, makes Israel untouchable? You would have to define what 'untouchable' meant. Israel, or more accurately this government and its supporters are rightly exposed to criticisms for their actions. I don't know of anyone who supports the west bank land grabs. I don't know of anyone who supports this particular action as a particularly effective one in terms of getting anywhere. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 12.56pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 12.26pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 11.59am

What is it that, to my mind at least, makes Israel untouchable?

You would have to define what 'untouchable' meant.

Israel, or more accurately this government and its supporters are rightly exposed to criticisms for their actions.

I don't know of anyone who supports the west bank land grabs.

I don't know of anyone who supports this particular action as a particularly effective one in terms of getting anywhere.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 12.56pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 12.28pm
Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 12.20pm You are of course right that both sides are in the wrong. However I feel that Israel 'started it' (for want of a better phrase) with the illegal settlements. One analogy I heard about the Israeli attacks on Gaza was that of a child being beaten to death for kicking someone in the shin. The illegal settlements are in the west bank, not Gaza. They may have performed this recent ill fitting one government nonsense (which will soon fall apart) but the reality is Hamas or Fatah have little influence outside their strongholds. Though it would be interesting to see who Gaza would vote for if .....after a period of peace.....they were given a chance to vote again. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 12.30pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 12.28pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 12.20pm

You are of course right that both sides are in the wrong. However I feel that Israel 'started it' (for want of a better phrase) with the illegal settlements.
One analogy I heard about the Israeli attacks on Gaza was that of a child being beaten to death for kicking someone in the shin.

The illegal settlements are in the west bank, not Gaza.

They may have performed this recent ill fitting one government nonsense (which will soon fall apart) but the reality is Hamas or Fatah have little influence outside their strongholds.

Though it would be interesting to see who Gaza would vote for if .....after a period of peace.....they were given a chance to vote again.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 12.30pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle 20 Jul 14 12.30pm
... Edited by legaleagle (20 Jul 2014 12.31pm)
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legaleagle

20 Jul 14 12.30pm

...

Edited by legaleagle (20 Jul 2014 12.31pm)

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 12.35pm
Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 12.20pm You are of course right that both sides are in the wrong. However I feel that Israel 'started it' (for want of a better phrase) with the illegal settlements. One analogy I heard about the Israeli attacks on Gaza was that of a child being beaten to death for kicking someone in the shin. 'You kill one of mine, I kill three of yours'. That's a basic of proportional response in the real world. You hit me, I hit you harder......It's a normal human reaction to conflict. If Hamas could hit back harder they would. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 12.35pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 12.20pm

You are of course right that both sides are in the wrong. However I feel that Israel 'started it' (for want of a better phrase) with the illegal settlements.
One analogy I heard about the Israeli attacks on Gaza was that of a child being beaten to death for kicking someone in the shin.

'You kill one of mine, I kill three of yours'.

That's a basic of proportional response in the real world.

You hit me, I hit you harder......It's a normal human reaction to conflict.

If Hamas could hit back harder they would.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle 20 Jul 14 12.37pm
Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 12.20pm You are of course right that both sides are in the wrong. However I feel that Israel 'started it' (for want of a better phrase) with the illegal settlements. One analogy I heard about the Israeli attacks on Gaza was that of a child being beaten to death for kicking someone in the shin. Fair point and not an unfair analogy. Though the only reason the person kicked in the shin hadn't instead been murdered in the first place was lack of means to kill rather than only deliver a kick in the shin.Each side will quote "starting points" going back well before the settlements...The insane cycle of violence needs to end. That will require (which I am not hopeful of) a serious and concerted effort by the international community led by the USA (with the USA actually becoming a force for ending the cycle of violence, not standing by and letting it carry on and on.) Edited by legaleagle (20 Jul 2014 12.38pm)
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legaleagle

20 Jul 14 12.37pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 12.20pm

Fair point and not an unfair analogy. Though the only reason the person kicked in the shin hadn't instead been murdered in the first place was lack of means to kill rather than only deliver a kick in the shin.Each side will quote "starting points" going back well before the settlements...The insane cycle of violence needs to end. That will require (which I am not hopeful of) a serious and concerted effort by the international community led by the USA (with the USA actually becoming a force for ending the cycle of violence, not standing by and letting it carry on and on.)

Edited by legaleagle (20 Jul 2014 12.38pm)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 1.37pm
[Link] Words fail me.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 1.37pm

[Link]

Words fail me.

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legaleagle 20 Jul 14 2.00pm
Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like they failed me when I read the HAMAS Charter for the first time this week with its insane talk of the Jews being responsible for the French Revolution, World War 2, and being bent upon taking over the world. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" in influential positions with some bonkers views. Edited by legaleagle (20 Jul 2014 2.05pm)
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legaleagle

20 Jul 14 2.00pm

Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like they failed me when I read the HAMAS Charter for the first time this week with its insane talk of the Jews being responsible for the French Revolution, World War 2, and being bent upon taking over the world. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" in influential positions with some bonkers views.

Edited by legaleagle (20 Jul 2014 2.05pm)

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 2.06pm
Quote legaleagle at 20 Jul 2014 2.00pm Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like I am sure they failed you when you read the HAMAS Charter. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" with some bonkers views. While this bloke's views are unrealistic and unacceptable they do not compare with Hamas's. I read the article. Do Hamas offer emigration compensation for Jews when they take back Israel?.....Errrr no....They offer a bullet in the head. Do Hamas offer Palestinian citizenship to Jews who would wish to live in a Palestinian state?....no....They offer a bullet in the head. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 2.06pm

Quote legaleagle at 20 Jul 2014 2.00pm

Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like I am sure they failed you when you read the HAMAS Charter. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" with some bonkers views.

While this bloke's views are unrealistic and unacceptable they do not compare with Hamas's.

I read the article.

Do Hamas offer emigration compensation for Jews when they take back Israel?.....Errrr no....They offer a bullet in the head.

Do Hamas offer Palestinian citizenship to Jews who would wish to live in a Palestinian state?....no....They offer a bullet in the head.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 2.07pm
Quote legaleagle at 20 Jul 2014 2.00pm Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like I am sure they failed you when you read the HAMAS Charter. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" with some bonkers views. Alas it seems that the extremists are pulling the strings on both sides. Which is why I posed the earlier question about a lack of intervention from the leaders of the rest of the world. I'd almost argue that by doing nothing, they too are complicit in this genocide. And yes it is genocide because the killing is indiscriminate.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 2.07pm

Quote legaleagle at 20 Jul 2014 2.00pm

Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like I am sure they failed you when you read the HAMAS Charter. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" with some bonkers views.

Alas it seems that the extremists are pulling the strings on both sides. Which is why I posed the earlier question about a lack of intervention from the leaders of the rest of the world. I'd almost argue that by doing nothing, they too are complicit in this genocide. And yes it is genocide because the killing is indiscriminate.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 2.08pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 2.06pm Quote legaleagle at 20 Jul 2014 2.00pm Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like I am sure they failed you when you read the HAMAS Charter. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" with some bonkers views. While this bloke's views are unrealistic and unacceptable they do not compare with Hamas's. I read the article. Do Hamas offer emigration compensation for Jews when they take back Israel?.....Errrr no....They offer a bullet in the head. Do Hamas offer Palestinian citizenship to Jews who would wish to live in a Palestinian state?....no....They offer a bullet in the head. Because they are under occupation. Until that ends... Well you can't really blame them.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 2.08pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 2.06pm

Quote legaleagle at 20 Jul 2014 2.00pm

Likud MP. Nutter.Words fail me too, just like I am sure they failed you when you read the HAMAS Charter. So, now we know....the situation has some "extremists" with some bonkers views.

While this bloke's views are unrealistic and unacceptable they do not compare with Hamas's.

I read the article.

Do Hamas offer emigration compensation for Jews when they take back Israel?.....Errrr no....They offer a bullet in the head.

Do Hamas offer Palestinian citizenship to Jews who would wish to live in a Palestinian state?....no....They offer a bullet in the head.

Because they are under occupation. Until that ends... Well you can't really blame them.

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Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 2.11pm
Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 2.08pm Because they are under occupation. Until that ends... Well you can't really blame them. Now that is an excuse for Hamas right there. Also, their manifesto calls for the killing of all Jews...It doesn't say....When we are no longer occupied we'll ease off a bit. Utter utter b*llocks. So presumably Fatah in the west bank just aren't quite doing enough. Amazing. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 2.13pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

20 Jul 14 2.11pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 2.08pm

Because they are under occupation. Until that ends... Well you can't really blame them.

Now that is an excuse for Hamas right there.

Also, their manifesto calls for the killing of all Jews...It doesn't say....When we are no longer occupied we'll ease off a bit.

Utter utter b*llocks.

So presumably Fatah in the west bank just aren't quite doing enough.

Amazing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 2.13pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 2.16pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 2.11pm Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 2.08pm Because they are under occupation. Until that ends... Well you can't really blame them. Now that is an excuse for Hamas right there. Also, their manifesto calls for the killing of all Jews...It doesn't say....When we are no longer occupied we'll ease off a bit. Utter utter b*llocks. So presumably Fatah in the west bank just aren't quite doing enough. Amazing. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 2.13pm) So the Palestinians should welcome the 'settlers' with open arms?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 2.16pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 20 Jul 2014 2.11pm

Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 2.08pm

Because they are under occupation. Until that ends... Well you can't really blame them.

Now that is an excuse for Hamas right there.

Also, their manifesto calls for the killing of all Jews...It doesn't say....When we are no longer occupied we'll ease off a bit.

Utter utter b*llocks.

So presumably Fatah in the west bank just aren't quite doing enough.

Amazing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jul 2014 2.13pm)

So the Palestinians should welcome the 'settlers' with open arms?

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