This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
chris123 hove actually 12 May 20 3.21pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
On that it's interesting to not that 106 NHS staff had died from COVID-19 up to 22 April. Apparently 63% were black or Asian, despite the fact that non-white staff comprise only 21% of the NHS workforce. I expect at some point we will be told why that's happened. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 May 2020 3.18pm) And you knew before that they were a vulnerable group?
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 12 May 20 3.35pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by chris123
And you knew before that they were a vulnerable group? I'm on here early on stating that I suspected they were vulnerable.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
AERO 12 May 20 3.35pm | |
---|---|
Its confusing? When are companies allowed to take back employees part time ? Where they share cost of employees. July or August as both seem to be mentioned in latest statements.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
chris123 hove actually 12 May 20 3.49pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm on here early on stating that I suspected they were vulnerable. I missed that then.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 12 May 20 3.56pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by chris123
I missed that then. You did sir.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
BlueJay UK 12 May 20 4.04pm | |
---|---|
The most non partisan way of figuring out the actual number of deaths we're dealing with, is to compare it to previous years. In doing so we arrive at a figure of 50,000+. If you average out antibody tests that have been done in various countries 5-10% of the population exposed to covid-19 so far sounds reasonable. In short, there is zero chance we're emerging from this without 100,000 deaths as a very conservative measure. A number approaching 200,000 is probably more likely. The US constantly shift their estimates too. Logically though, you're probably looking at half a million additional deaths as a conservative estimate. There is a concerted effort to undermine this, because understandably people want to get back to business. I would agree that they're horrendous numbers to consider. That said, another important reality is that the vast majority of deaths are in the over 65s. Almost half in the over 85s I believe. While I can understand an initial push to get the numbers down - though if we'd acted sooner, we wouldn't have needed to do that - it does surely now make sense to focus on protecting the most vulnerable. Changes to care homes where there's less of a turnstile aspect to care givers arriving and leaving, frequent testing in those environments and so on. It makes very little sense that we've all been in lockdown and social distancing while people in these environments have not been able to do this in the slightest and have paid a heavy price through lack of effective planning. As for elderly in the community, where they live with those now working or out and about, moving in together with an elderly friend to remain safe while also maintaining a social life is an option in the coming months. Most people of working age are able to either shrug off or fight off covid-19. Granted more than you'd think may need medical intervention - especially if million get ill simultaneously - which is why the additional hospital capacity is welcome and why it's important to keep the r0 manageable through mask wearing, hand washing and the like. But at the same time, the cat is out of the bag now, and if vast numbers of younger people get and get over covid-19 over time and have a level of immunity, while the elderly and vulnerable are sheltered, that does not seem like a bad outcome to me. I'm not saying let's go full steam ahead and open nightclubs and the like, just that there needs to be a sensible balance between protecting health and getting the economy started. Businesses aren't designed to just completely stop trading for 4 or 5 months and there are consequences to putting everything on pause with no firm restart date. Edited by BlueJay (12 May 2020 4.08pm)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 12 May 20 4.05pm | |
---|---|
A biology professor put it well in the Telegraph: SIR – Science proceeds by putting forward conjectures or hypotheses, collecting empirical data to test them, and accepting, rejecting or modifying them on that basis. The implication is that our scientific understanding is not fixed, but changes as evidence accumulates. In the United Kingdom the initial decision to impose lockdown to control the effects of COVID-19 was based on a conjecture or model that has now been tested against real data and is found to be wanting. The model predicts that, under the sustainable public health measures taken by Sweden and in the absence of lockdown, there should now be 60,000 deaths in that country from Covid-19, whereas there are currently only about 3,000 there, with deaths now well past the peak and declining. Given the failure of the model to make useful predictions, there is no justification for using it to guide future policy. In contrast, large amounts of empirical evidence have now been gathered which demonstrate that for a very large fraction of the population the virus poses a very low risk, while a small fraction – whose immune systems are compromised – are vulnerable. Therefore, to follow the science, an appropriate policy is the targeted shielding of those who choose to be classified as vulnerable, rigorous screening of their carers to prevent transfer of infection to the vulnerable sector, and release from lockdown for those outside these categories. Continuing the blanket lockdown cannot be justified on the basis that it is 'following the science'.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 20 4.18pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Germany are negotiating with Greece and the Balearics to allow them to holiday there. That's the European Union spirit!
Red and Blue Army! |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Badger11 Beckenham 12 May 20 5.50pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
On that it's interesting to not that 106 NHS staff had died from COVID-19 up to 22 April. Apparently 63% were black or Asian, despite the fact that non-white staff comprise only 21% of the NHS workforce. I expect at some point we will be told why that's happened. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 May 2020 3.18pm) I think what is interesting in this report is that there were no deaths related to ICU. Of course every death is a tragedy but it does seem that the doctors and nurses treating the most seriously ill have been protected so the NHS is working on that point. One journalist reckons that the death rate for NHS staff is 0.5% which is a lot lower than other groups of course it depends on how he arrived at that number. We don't know how they got infected it may not have been job related and of course NHS staff like the rest of us can have underlying health problems. Doreen Lawrence is calling for a Royal Commission into the number of BAME deaths which I don't think we need however as white men are by far the biggest victims perhaps Labour should also call for one into that. I suspect that when the dust settles there will not be an obvious answer how do you separate out lifestyle choices, underlying heath issues, genetic issues, poor hygiene bad judgement and so on. Salford is now a big hot spot outside of London a researcher who knows the area tells me it is because they are poor. Perhaps, it may also be that they don't pay attention to the advice about social distancing judging from the pictures I have seen in the media. Anyway I hope we can drive the numbers down asap. Keep safe evrybody Edited by Badger11 (12 May 2020 5.52pm)
One more point |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 12 May 20 5.54pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Badger11
I think what is interesting in this report is that there were no deaths related to ICU. Of course every death is a tragedy but it does seem that the doctors and nurses treating the most seriously ill have been protected so the NHS is working on that point. One journalist reckons that the death rate for NHS staff is 0.5% which is a lot lower than other groups of course it depends on how he arrived at that number. We don't know how they got infected it may not have been job related and of course NHS staff like the rest of us can have underlying health problems. Doreen Lawrence is calling for a Royal Commission into the number of BAME deaths which I don't think we need however as white men are by far the biggest victims perhaps Labour should also call for one into that. I suspect that when the dust settles there will not be an obvious answer how do you separate out lifestyle choices, underlying heath issues, genetic issues, poor hygiene bad judgement and so on. Salford is now a big hot spot outside of London a researcher who knows the area tells me it is because they are poor. Perhaps, it may also be that they don't pay attention to the advice about social distancing judging from the pictures I have seen in the media. Anyway I hope we can drive the numbers down asap. Keep safe evrybody Edited by Badger11 (12 May 2020 5.52pm) An excellent post as usual.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hrolf The Ganger 12 May 20 7.12pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Badger11
I think what is interesting in this report is that there were no deaths related to ICU. Of course every death is a tragedy but it does seem that the doctors and nurses treating the most seriously ill have been protected so the NHS is working on that point. One journalist reckons that the death rate for NHS staff is 0.5% which is a lot lower than other groups of course it depends on how he arrived at that number. We don't know how they got infected it may not have been job related and of course NHS staff like the rest of us can have underlying health problems. Doreen Lawrence is calling for a Royal Commission into the number of BAME deaths which I don't think we need however as white men are by far the biggest victims perhaps Labour should also call for one into that. I suspect that when the dust settles there will not be an obvious answer how do you separate out lifestyle choices, underlying heath issues, genetic issues, poor hygiene bad judgement and so on. Salford is now a big hot spot outside of London a researcher who knows the area tells me it is because they are poor. Perhaps, it may also be that they don't pay attention to the advice about social distancing judging from the pictures I have seen in the media. Anyway I hope we can drive the numbers down asap. Keep safe evrybody Edited by Badger11 (12 May 2020 5.52pm) It's obviously because Covid is racist, just like the fire brigade, police, the government and every White person ever.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 12 May 20 7.17pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It's obviously because Covid is racist, just like the fire brigade, police, the government and every White person ever. If she's in the Lords then why isn't Kriss Donald's mother also in the Lords? It's a hypothetical question of course because we know why. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 May 2020 7.19pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Registration is now on our new message board
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.