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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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eaglesdare 23 Sep 22 10.40am
The only ground it looks like Ukraine have re-taken is the pro russian- ukrainian areas. The media would have you believe that it is putins forces....
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eaglesdare

23 Sep 22 10.40am

The only ground it looks like Ukraine have re-taken is the pro russian- ukrainian areas. The media would have you believe that it is putins forces....

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Sep 22 11.04am
Originally posted by eaglesdare The only ground it looks like Ukraine have re-taken is the pro russian- ukrainian areas. The media would have you believe that it is putins forces.... They've only beaten the Volkssturm so far. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Sep 22 11.04am

Originally posted by eaglesdare

The only ground it looks like Ukraine have re-taken is the pro russian- ukrainian areas. The media would have you believe that it is putins forces....

They've only beaten the Volkssturm so far.

Red and Blue Army!

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silvertop Portishead 23 Sep 22 12.18pm
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan 1 year National service is mandatory in Russia, Russia actually has a pool of about 25,000,000 people it can call upon that have completed national service. It's worth noting these reservists are better trained than Ukraine's civil defence force, Ukraine's professional army stands at about 180,000 (could be wrong on this figure). Russia's biggest problem is logistics, they have one tactic which is blitzkrieg - Artillery the f*** out of an area & then tank rush it. We saw at the start of the war how incompetent their logistics was with an invading army of 150,000 so how they're going to keep an army of a million going I have no clue. Ultimately you don't bring a million soldiers into a country unless you're going all the way. It's going to be a blood bath & the Russian forces are backed with Nuclear weapons. The Ukrainian city of Uzhhorod is a 2 hour 50 minute drive from my front door. The Russian reservists may be better trained than their Ukrainian counterparts, but the latter are receiving considerable training support from Western armies. Now, I don't know whether that is necessarily a good thing. However, what is different between the two is that the Ukrainians have current combat experience; they are highly motivated; I suspect their logistics are well organised and assisted by US satellite feeds; and they are fighting at home. You hit the nail on the head in terms of logistics. To put 1 million men into the theatre requires a serious upgrade in supply lines. Given they have proven unable to supply 150,000, one wonders whether they are going to be able to supply 6 times more. I see demoralized young men fighting a war they do not understand waiting for days to be paid, fed and supplied with materials to fight. No wonder there are queues of young men trying to escape to Georgia and other neighbouring countries. And chucking many more men into the battle may not be the answer. Surely they will just get in each other's way? I can also see a lot more blue-on-blue friendly fire victims. Putin needs to listen to his generals and not seek to appease the ultra nationalists if he wants to get any success from this. I am not sad he isn't.
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silvertop

Portishead 23 Sep 22 12.18pm

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

1 year National service is mandatory in Russia, Russia actually has a pool of about 25,000,000 people it can call upon that have completed national service.
It's worth noting these reservists are better trained than Ukraine's civil defence force,
Ukraine's professional army stands at about 180,000 (could be wrong on this figure).

Russia's biggest problem is logistics, they have one tactic which is blitzkrieg - Artillery the f*** out of an area & then tank rush it.
We saw at the start of the war how incompetent their logistics was with an invading army of 150,000 so how they're going to keep an army of a million going I have no clue.

Ultimately you don't bring a million soldiers into a country unless you're going all the way.
It's going to be a blood bath & the Russian forces are backed with Nuclear weapons.

The Ukrainian city of Uzhhorod is a 2 hour 50 minute drive from my front door.

The Russian reservists may be better trained than their Ukrainian counterparts, but the latter are receiving considerable training support from Western armies. Now, I don't know whether that is necessarily a good thing. However, what is different between the two is that the Ukrainians have current combat experience; they are highly motivated; I suspect their logistics are well organised and assisted by US satellite feeds; and they are fighting at home.

You hit the nail on the head in terms of logistics. To put 1 million men into the theatre requires a serious upgrade in supply lines. Given they have proven unable to supply 150,000, one wonders whether they are going to be able to supply 6 times more. I see demoralized young men fighting a war they do not understand waiting for days to be paid, fed and supplied with materials to fight. No wonder there are queues of young men trying to escape to Georgia and other neighbouring countries.

And chucking many more men into the battle may not be the answer. Surely they will just get in each other's way? I can also see a lot more blue-on-blue friendly fire victims.

Putin needs to listen to his generals and not seek to appease the ultra nationalists if he wants to get any success from this. I am not sad he isn't.

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silvertop Portishead 23 Sep 22 12.20pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays WE should get out there and take his clothes off. That'll should terrify the Russian hordes all the way back to Moscow. Ten years of therapy still wouldn't get them to speak of the horror. Perhaps you could join him
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silvertop

Portishead 23 Sep 22 12.20pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

WE should get out there and take his clothes off.

That'll should terrify the Russian hordes all the way back to Moscow.

Ten years of therapy still wouldn't get them to speak of the horror.

Perhaps you could join him

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Stirlingsays 23 Sep 22 12.29pm
Originally posted by silvertop Perhaps you could join him Tut tut. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Sep 22 12.29pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Perhaps you could join him

Tut tut.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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silvertop Portishead 23 Sep 22 12.35pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Any look at history will often show the hordes beating technologically superior forces. Although there are many nuances and grey areas. You can probably think of some straight away. I guess the obvious one is WWII where the best planes, tanks, rockets etc, could not beat mass produced ones in large numbers. It's what makes the Chinese and North Koreans the worry that they are. If you want to compare, then the West is a bit like the Germans, due to the numbers and technology in our forces. China/N Korea a bit like the Soviets. Endless reserves until we are nearly all done. I am not sure how accurate historic comparisons are. The British bombed by night - "area bombing" - and the US by day - "strategic bombing". The latter always maintained they were hitting military targets. However, this was just fodder for the masses. The British description was more accurate and honest. When the bombs dropped, neither air force had a scooby where the bombs would land. When used in combat areas they were almost as likely to bomb their own team. These days, a ship far out to sea can fire a scud (or modern equivalent) through the window I am currently looking out of. On the ground intelligence + satellite + the right kit + appropriately trained operatives and they can take out only what they need to.
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silvertop

Portishead 23 Sep 22 12.35pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Any look at history will often show the hordes beating technologically superior forces. Although there are many nuances and grey areas. You can probably think of some straight away.
I guess the obvious one is WWII where the best planes, tanks, rockets etc, could not beat mass produced ones in large numbers.
It's what makes the Chinese and North Koreans the worry that they are. If you want to compare, then the West is a bit like the Germans, due to the numbers and technology in our forces. China/N Korea a bit like the Soviets. Endless reserves until we are nearly all done.

I am not sure how accurate historic comparisons are.

The British bombed by night - "area bombing" - and the US by day - "strategic bombing". The latter always maintained they were hitting military targets. However, this was just fodder for the masses. The British description was more accurate and honest. When the bombs dropped, neither air force had a scooby where the bombs would land. When used in combat areas they were almost as likely to bomb their own team.

These days, a ship far out to sea can fire a scud (or modern equivalent) through the window I am currently looking out of. On the ground intelligence + satellite + the right kit + appropriately trained operatives and they can take out only what they need to.

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Stirlingsays 23 Sep 22 1.00pm
Tucker Carlson being accurate on this war: [Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Sep 22 1.00pm

Tucker Carlson being accurate on this war:

[Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 23 Sep 22 6.22pm
We are about to witness a sea of blood and yet still, no one is willing to seriously negotiate a realistic peace. Perhaps it's all too late for it now. Hopefully the winter makes offensives very difficult and thus gives pause for realistic reconsiderment. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2022 6.42pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Sep 22 6.22pm

We are about to witness a sea of blood and yet still, no one is willing to seriously negotiate a realistic peace.

Perhaps it's all too late for it now.

Hopefully the winter makes offensives very difficult and thus gives pause for realistic reconsiderment.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2022 6.42pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Eaglehamster Storrington 23 Sep 22 8.48pm
Do you seriously believe Putin will ever be up for negotiation? I mean where the negotiation where a Russian victory isn't the only outcome. It looks now when the sham referendum proclaims a Russian takeover of Ukraine territory, gives him a valid excuse to go nuclear to get the victory he's desperate for. I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything.
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Eaglehamster

Storrington 23 Sep 22 8.48pm

Do you seriously believe Putin will ever be up for negotiation? I mean where the negotiation where a Russian victory isn't the only outcome.

It looks now when the sham referendum proclaims a Russian takeover of Ukraine territory, gives him a valid excuse to go nuclear to get the victory he's desperate for.

I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything.

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Stirlingsays 23 Sep 22 9.10pm
Originally posted by Eaglehamster Do you seriously believe Putin will ever be up for negotiation? I mean where the negotiation where a Russian victory isn't the only outcome. It looks now when the sham referendum proclaims a Russian takeover of Ukraine territory, gives him a valid excuse to go nuclear to get the victory he's desperate for. Someone should be trying for god's sake.....No one has tried for months. Where were you in March? Negotiations were already happening and several aspects had been agreed. Why did you think that Johnson went to Kiev? Whether negotiation is possible now I doubt but this war has been highly avoidable for eight years. Films were even made about this war before it happened. This war happened purely out of geo-political positioning. As for the referendums, I very much doubt that the Ukrainians in the south and east have much time for their government..They have always voted for the pro Russian candidates in elections and in Donetsk city where the Ukrainians have been shelling them everyday...I suspect the majority will be happy rid of them. But the reality is that most Ukrainians will want peace however it comes.....Not the sea of blood that is about to. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2022 9.11pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Sep 22 9.10pm

Originally posted by Eaglehamster

Do you seriously believe Putin will ever be up for negotiation? I mean where the negotiation where a Russian victory isn't the only outcome.

It looks now when the sham referendum proclaims a Russian takeover of Ukraine territory, gives him a valid excuse to go nuclear to get the victory he's desperate for.

Someone should be trying for god's sake.....No one has tried for months.

Where were you in March? Negotiations were already happening and several aspects had been agreed. Why did you think that Johnson went to Kiev?

Whether negotiation is possible now I doubt but this war has been highly avoidable for eight years. Films were even made about this war before it happened. This war happened purely out of geo-political positioning.

As for the referendums, I very much doubt that the Ukrainians in the south and east have much time for their government..They have always voted for the pro Russian candidates in elections and in Donetsk city where the Ukrainians have been shelling them everyday...I suspect the majority will be happy rid of them.

But the reality is that most Ukrainians will want peace however it comes.....Not the sea of blood that is about to.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Sep 2022 9.11pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 23 Sep 22 11.03pm
Like I say the majority of people in Russia are pro Putin & pro war [Tweet Link] The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 23 Sep 22 11.03pm

Like I say the majority of people in Russia are pro Putin & pro war

[Tweet Link]

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 23 Sep 22 11.18pm
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan Like I say the majority of people in Russia are pro Putin & pro war [Tweet Link] Yep. This looks pretty close to 144 million people’s worth of pro war support. Propaganda and control by fear is alive and well Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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