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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 11 May 20 12.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The suggestion that "half the world’s workforce having no income" is obviously horrifying but is it actually true? 50% seems like a figure pulled out of the air to me. With so much unknown about the virus right now, and indeed how long a vaccine will take to be available, if ever, then of course we need to balance the risks and remain flexible in our approach. Which will vary from country to country dependent on their circumstances. The fact that the virus is not killing as many as some others is a complete red herring. The real question is how many would it kill if it were to be ignored? For the moment I am content that the approach we are taking is the right one and that the promise of the rapid availability of a vaccine will mitigate the economic hit, with a fast subsequent recovery. I don't buy into the economic doom and gloom merchants senario. Life may change. It always has. In some places, as I know from personal experience, having more than 50% of the working age people not working can cause deprivation but it doesn't cause starvation. The land still gets worked and people are fed. They might not be able to buy the latest gadgets though. Big deal! Whilst I don't disagree as such with your last sentence, I too believe that even facing a possible depression, we should still be capable of feeding society, I think the bigger picture is that we were not designed to sit around and wait to be fed. As humans we are designed to achieve things, to push boundaries, to conquer and explore. I don't think its as simple as just weighing potential loss of lives against potential loss of jobs/economy, I think we also need to factor in loss of quality of life and state of mind. We were not designed to sit indoors and wait to be fed, just to be kept alive. To me this is another form of dying. Whilst I comply with the lockdown etc, i'm pretty much at the end of my tether some days and am almost of the opinion that i'd rather take my chances and let the cards fall where they fall. Would rather 10 years of proper living than 20 years of being kept inside, bored, lonely and anxious.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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Mapletree Croydon 11 May 20 1.00pm | |
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So I have been sounding out some friends overseas Mates in Bavaria are worried as Merkel got bullied into opening up earlier than she wanted by the States like Bavaria. In Hamburg I am told 9 weeks of lockdown is now easing and so far so good, so there seems less concern. The big worry seems to be Brazil.They tell me it's getting worse, with extended quarantine in Sao Paulo until the end of May and cars can only transit on odd and even dates according to their plates. In the north and northeast regions situation is even worst. Vulnerability to its max extent. Meanwhile Bolsonaro goes to a floating barbecue. We think we are hearing mixed messages!
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Teddy Eagle 11 May 20 1.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
So I have been sounding out some friends overseas Mates in Bavaria are worried as Merkel got bullied into opening up earlier than she wanted by the States like Bavaria. In Hamburg I am told 9 weeks of lockdown is now easing and so far so good, so there seems less concern. The big worry seems to be Brazil.They tell me it's getting worse, with extended quarantine in Sao Paulo until the end of May and cars can only transit on odd and even dates according to their plates. In the north and northeast regions situation is even worst. Vulnerability to its max extent. Meanwhile Bolsonaro goes to a floating barbecue. We think we are hearing mixed messages! Interesting to get first hand reports from other countries.
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BlueJay UK 11 May 20 1.47pm | |
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There is really no sensible argument at all against the initial lockdown, because the numbers ended up being concerning enough as it is, and it allowed us to get build significant extra capacity into the system. People just have a real problem getting their head around exponential growth. The real test now comes with when we start to open up. Thankfully we're 2 or 3 weeks behind many other nations and so can track their progress or lack of. We should make any future lockdowns specific to certain groups, who should likely be isolating anyway, or specific regions if things get really bad. The capacity is there for a reason, and there does have to be a sensible balance between health and the economy. Hopefully improved treatments will come along faster than we anticipate being that this is a worldwide problem. That and a better plan for care homes, would be potential live savers at this time. We've let down the elderly in many ways, in our uncaring attitude towards them at this time and our lack of a plan to maximise their chances of getting out of the other side of this.
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cryrst The garden of England 11 May 20 2.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
That's not how the furlough scheme is supposed to work as the employer is supposed to pay you the full wage or salary and the government re-imburses the employer with 80% of the wage There is no requirement for an employer to top up the wages. Its totally optional. Tbh I would be pissed if a colleague was at home earning full wages and I was working for the same.
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Midlands Eagle 11 May 20 3.56pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
I have been paying my staff their full salaries. Should I ask for 20% of it back again
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 11 May 20 4.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I have been paying my staff their full salaries. Should I ask for 20% of it back again DanH will cover it.
COYP |
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davenotamonkey 11 May 20 4.23pm | |
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This whole 14-day quarantine thing is a farce. We've had people arriving from everywhere, in the past 2 months, with ZERO checks, and ZERO quarantine. Now, apparently, we need a quarantine. But not now, sometime in the next month or so (details?). But not if you come from Ireland. Oh, and France. Oh, and only if you arrive by plane. As much as I am supportive of this government, yesterday's annoucenment, and this horse-bolted-stable-door-closing vague pronouncement is an unworkable mess. They gave people carte blanche entry to this country at a time when other nations were placing heavy restrictions on immigration. Now other nations are opening up, and we now shut up shop. Oh, unless you arrive from er... France. I don't mind saying, it looks amateurish.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 May 20 4.26pm | |
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
Whilst I don't disagree as such with your last sentence, I too believe that even facing a possible depression, we should still be capable of feeding society, I think the bigger picture is that we were not designed to sit around and wait to be fed. As humans we are designed to achieve things, to push boundaries, to conquer and explore. I don't think its as simple as just weighing potential loss of lives against potential loss of jobs/economy, I think we also need to factor in loss of quality of life and state of mind. We were not designed to sit indoors and wait to be fed, just to be kept alive. To me this is another form of dying. Whilst I comply with the lockdown etc, i'm pretty much at the end of my tether some days and am almost of the opinion that i'd rather take my chances and let the cards fall where they fall. Would rather 10 years of proper living than 20 years of being kept inside, bored, lonely and anxious. I don't think anyone believes "its as simple as just weighing potential loss of lives against potential loss of jobs/economy". It's all about risk management. Locking down tightly to control the spread and ensure the NHS could cope was because the risk of not doing so was unacceptable. Staying lockdowned in that way for 10 years would be just as unacceptable. So what we have done is bought ourselves some time. Time to learn and to assess. We are about to enter a new phase during which life will become more bearable, although not back to normal. That won't happen until we are all vaccinated and even then the lessons learned may require changes. It's only been a few weeks. We can manage it! I know I am lucky living where I do and have managed to use my time productively. I am very far from bored. In fact I am as busy as I have been in years doing all the things around the house I have been postponing. No excuses now. I know it's much harder for others and sympathise with how tough it has been for those with children at home, little personal space, and trying to organise studies and home working. Hopefully this next phase will make things progressively easier for them.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 May 20 4.48pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Interesting to get first hand reports from other countries. I get regular updates from the Philippines, which is under an extremely tight lockdown. The locals are laid back about it and uncomplainingly comply. They accept how dangerous it is and that should they get sick there is little to no chance of getting any kind of sophisticated health treatment. Because most cannot afford it. So they stay in their family clusters, visit the market on their allocated day each week and in the rural areas tend their gardens and plots where they grow veg and raise chicken and pigs. Schools are closed at this time anyway. It's their long summer break. There is a sharing culture there so if you have food, and others don't, then they won't go hungry. Making sure there is food every day is the first priority of every family there, and there is almost no stock holding. The American ex pats that I am in contact with, who bar one are devout followers of Trump, are moaning about this affront to their liberty and recycling one conspiracy theory after another which they firmly believe are all true. Except the one sensible guy who holds his head in bewilderment at the stupidity of his fellow citizens. One guy, who complains bitterly about the way China has imposed this on him and rejects the idea that anyone can tell him to stay indoors, still has a 3 month stock of food and a gun ready to defend it.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 11 May 20 5.23pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I get regular updates from the Philippines, which is under an extremely tight lockdown. The locals are laid back about it and uncomplainingly comply. They accept how dangerous it is and that should they get sick there is little to no chance of getting any kind of sophisticated health treatment. Because most cannot afford it. So they stay in their family clusters, visit the market on their allocated day each week and in the rural areas tend their gardens and plots where they grow veg and raise chicken and pigs. Schools are closed at this time anyway. It's their long summer break. There is a sharing culture there so if you have food, and others don't, then they won't go hungry. Making sure there is food every day is the first priority of every family there, and there is almost no stock holding. The American ex pats that I am in contact with, who bar one are devout followers of Trump, are moaning about this affront to their liberty and recycling one conspiracy theory after another which they firmly believe are all true. Except the one sensible guy who holds his head in bewilderment at the stupidity of his fellow citizens. One guy, who complains bitterly about the way China has imposed this on him and rejects the idea that anyone can tell him to stay indoors, still has a 3 month stock of food and a gun ready to defend it. Let's not be beastly to the Chinese - or is it them being beastly to beasts? Just so many ways to put the genie back in the bottle except...it won't go back in.
Red and Blue Army! |
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Spiderman Horsham 11 May 20 7.10pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The suggestion that "half the world’s workforce having no income" is obviously horrifying but is it actually true? 50% seems like a figure pulled out of the air to me. With so much unknown about the virus right now, and indeed how long a vaccine will take to be available, if ever, then of course we need to balance the risks and remain flexible in our approach. Which will vary from country to country dependent on their circumstances. The fact that the virus is not killing as many as some others is a complete red herring. The real question is how many would it kill if it were to be ignored? For the moment I am content that the approach we are taking is the right one and that the promise of the rapid availability of a vaccine will mitigate the economic hit, with a fast subsequent recovery. I don't buy into the economic doom and gloom merchants senario. Life may change. It always has. In some places, as I know from personal experience, having more than 50% of the working age people not working can cause deprivation but it doesn't cause starvation. The land still gets worked and people are fed. They might not be able to buy the latest gadgets though. Big deal! Isn’t this easy for you to say with your 3 rental properties sitting in your little SW bubble. So deprivation is ok is it? because people are not starving. Unbelievable.
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