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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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  Hrolf The Ganger  10 Jul 16 2.14pm |
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Originally posted by JohnyBoy
Can you give me examples of how plebiscite democracies have been used in the uk in the past then hrolf? When have they ever been used to override elected governments? The point I am making is that the very same people who you deem unworthy of making specific decisions are the same people who elect the government. The same lies and hysteria apply to General Elections and although some would question the voting system, no one questions the result. We know that people are often not qualified to make considered decisions but surely when the people are offered some direct democracy to make a decision, we should grab it with both hands. The ones who object are usually on the losing side. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (10 Jul 2016 2.14pm)
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| JohnyBoy 10 Jul 16 2.23pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The point I am making is that the very same people who you deem unworthy of making specific decisions are the same people who elect the government. The same lies and hysteria apply to General Elections and although some would question the voting system, no one questions the result. We know that people are often not qualified to make considered decisions but surely when the people are offered some direct democracy to make a decision, we should grab it with both hands. The ones who object are usually on the losing side. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (10 Jul 2016 2.14pm) I do take your point hrolf just disagree on using the word democracy atleast as far as i have ever understood it in the uk, because the answer is we have never let a plebiscite decision override an elected government. Its too late now though, we voted leave so leave we must although its interesting that the leader of the far right party in Austria: Norbert Hoffer has yesterday dropped his plans for an 'oexit' saying now it would be a mistake. Atleast he realised it in time...anyway enough from me for today, too much good sport on the telly
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| Hrolf The Ganger 10 Jul 16 2.37pm |
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Originally posted by JohnyBoy
I do take your point hrolf just disagree on using the word democracy atleast as far as i have ever understood it in the uk, because the answer is we have never let a plebiscite decision override an elected government. Its too late now though, we voted leave so leave we must although its interesting that the leader of the far right party in Austria: Norbert Hoffer has yesterday dropped his plans for an 'oexit' saying now it would be a mistake. Atleast he realised it in time...anyway enough from me for today, too much good sport on the telly I understand your logic in the procedural sense but in reality, governments usually win an election on a list of promises that are broken and then ignore the consensus of public opinion. I don't say that asking the electorate to vote on all policy is ever going to be workable or sensible but when it is offered, particular on such a critical question, then it should be welcomed.
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| chris123 hove actually 10 Jul 16 2.54pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
There are at least two countries I'm aware of that use plebiscites for serious issues regularly - those bastions of mob rule, Switzerland and Australia. It seems to work well there. The UK has never been a plebiscite democracy and nor is it about to become one. Prior to this one, there have only been two referenda in our entire history, one of which was to remain in the very same organisation we've just voted to leave. decided by the same 'ignorant, clapping proletariat' you hold in such disdain. In the run-up to this referendum, you conducted your own campaign on these boards with dignity and intelligent debate. In defeat, you've acted like a spoilt, petulant child, blaming the electorate for supposedly being not as clever as you. The referendum produced a clear and unambiguous result: you're now stamping your feet because you didn't get the outcome you wanted. It's not fair. You want your mummy. You disappoint me.
Four countries held referenda in regard to Maastricht and in France the vote was 51% - 49% in favour, so plenty of scepticism even then, the other countries were Italy, Ireland and Denmark.
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| chris123 hove actually 10 Jul 16 3.09pm |
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Originally posted by JohnyBoy
I can only assume then that you have had your head buried firmly in the sand then cucking. My 'ilk' are like Mark Carney who when asked what he thought post brexit said "let me put it this way, does anyone in this room not think we are in a much worse economic situation than we were pre-brexit?" There was silence "ok" he said "does anyone in the country not think we are in a worse economic situation?" Again there was silence...."i think that tells us something" he concluded.....oh, and by the way, immigration is likely to rise, we will have to bargain away free movement for a trade deal and we will have lost our veto to block turkey joining....so atleast we've taken back control eh The Bank of England have made it crystal clear that they were fully prepared for Brexit and will take whatever action is necessary in regard to economic and financial stability.
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Jul 16 5.11pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
The Bank of England have made it crystal clear that they were fully prepared for Brexit and will take whatever action is necessary in regard to economic and financial stability. I am sure it was. Just like the country was fully prepared for the aftermath of the Iraq war.
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Kermit8  Hevon 10 Jul 16 5.15pm |
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Going back to Brexiteers The Far Left and Far Right; When have they got anything correct ever medium to long term politically and economically? They are on the winning side this time but that lot are perennially doomed to failure. Could be a first I suppose but don't hold yer breath.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 10 Jul 16 5.19pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Going back to Brexiteers The Far Left and Far Right; When have they got anything correct ever medium to long term politically and economically? They are on the winning side this time but that lot are perennially doomed to failure. Could be a first I suppose but don't hold yer breath. Why do you say the far right and left? Some 17 million voted Brexit. Are they all extremist? I'd say that Brexiters came from a broad spectrum.
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| chris123 hove actually 10 Jul 16 5.26pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Going back to Brexiteers The Far Left and Far Right; When have they got anything correct ever medium to long term politically and economically? They are on the winning side this time but that lot are perennially doomed to failure. Could be a first I suppose but don't hold yer breath. I think there's a fundamental flaw in your logic, the vast majority are middle of the road, just like the vast majority of remainers.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 10 Jul 16 5.30pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Why do you say the far right and left? Some 17 million voted Brexit. Are they all extremist? I'd say that Brexiters came from a broad spectrum.
Will this be the first time they have been involved in something positive long term? Have they called it correct at last?
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| Kermit8 Hevon 10 Jul 16 5.33pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
I think there's a fundamental flaw in your logic, the vast majority are middle of the road, just like the vast majority of remainers.
Their judgement. There is your problem. Edited by Kermit8 (10 Jul 2016 5.34pm)
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 10 Jul 16 6.42pm |
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Kermie, I earnestly enjoin you to bone up on the words to the Horst Wessell Song. It's happening.
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