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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 Mapletree  Croydon 21 Sep 22 3.43pm |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
Really? You show me your sources and I’ll show you mine. How is life under that wooden bridge comrade?
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| Stirlingsays 21 Sep 22 4.00pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
No, granite doesn’t contain anything porous. Granite is massive (lacking any internal structures), hard, and tough. This is more the reality of these interactions.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| silvertop Portishead 21 Sep 22 5.09pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Unlike Russia, which encourages corruption to maintain control over powerful individuals, Ukraine is not amongst the most corrupt nations. It is 15 countries less corrupt than Russia but I shan’t be buying a timeshare there any time soon. Most corrupt is South Sudan, least corrupt New Zealand, Finland and Denmark Interestingly Estonia is at a similar ranking to Britain Edited by Mapletree (21 Sep 2022 2.42pm) Much has been said on here (I am not sure whether motivated by pro Russian perspective and / or anti western media) about how corrupt Ukraine was and why we favour one over the other. Good question. Thus, does anyone stop to think that Poland was ruled by a nasty military dictatorship before the German tanks rolled in? Of course that did not excuse the horrors then inflicted on those people by the Germans from the west and then USSR from the east. But their depiction as a helpless, innocent nation is a story made for propaganda purposes where the dictatorship issue spoils the victim narrative. Or that a Ugandan once told me that Milton Obote was much worse than his successor, the "Last King of Scotland"; and no worse than many other African leaders (don't get me started on South Africa); but Obote was pro west and Amin was pro East. OK, the latter caused the influx of Asian immigrants into the UK and was integral to the Entebbe terrorism issue; but he was still possibly better for the Ugandans than Obote. There are undoubtedly a host of heroic countries and favoured regimes that have been despotic and fundamentally corrupt, but their activities have fallen under the radar as they were pro West. And so to Ukraine. Probably no angel, but it was a burgeoning, embryonic democracy with all the cultural legacy of a nation once under the USSR boot; and living on the edge of a larger more powerful and threatening neighbour who used to wear that boot. What would you expect it to be but one coming from that end of the stick and seeking to become more like western Europe on the other end. Then again, you are missing the point. Whether they were perfect or even far from it, their issues (which had no impact on Russian security) cannot excuse invasion and brutal annexation.
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| Returner 21 Sep 22 5.23pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Much has been said on here (I am not sure whether motivated by pro Russian perspective and / or anti western media) about how corrupt Ukraine was and why we favour one over the other. Good question. Thus, does anyone stop to think that Poland was ruled by a nasty military dictatorship before the German tanks rolled in? Of course that did not excuse the horrors then inflicted on those people by the Germans from the west and then USSR from the east. But their depiction as a helpless, innocent nation is a story made for propaganda purposes where the dictatorship issue spoils the victim narrative. Or that a Ugandan once told me that Milton Obote was much worse than his successor, the "Last King of Scotland"; and no worse than many other African leaders (don't get me started on South Africa); but Obote was pro west and Amin was pro East. OK, the latter caused the influx of Asian immigrants into the UK and was integral to the Entebbe terrorism issue; but he was still possibly better for the Ugandans than Obote. There are undoubtedly a host of heroic countries and favoured regimes that have been despotic and fundamentally corrupt, but their activities have fallen under the radar as they were pro West. And so to Ukraine. Probably no angel, but it was a burgeoning, embryonic democracy with all the cultural legacy of a nation once under the USSR boot; and living on the edge of a larger more powerful and threatening neighbour who used to wear that boot. What would you expect it to be but one coming from that end of the stick and seeking to become more like western Europe on the other end. Then again, you are missing the point. Whether they were perfect or even far from it, their issues (which had no impact on Russian security) cannot excuse invasion and brutal annexation. How so? The government was installed in 2012 by the US by Victoria Nuland who had ethnic beef with the Russians via her family. Since then they have done everything they can to terrorise and silence opposition and waged war on the ethnic Russians in the east. This was common knowledge before the war. It's just another Oligarchy/Kleptocry. Edited by Returner (21 Sep 2022 5.25pm)
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| Stirlingsays 21 Sep 22 5.30pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Much has been said on here (I am not sure whether motivated by pro Russian perspective and / or anti western media) about how corrupt Ukraine was and why we favour one over the other. Good question. Thus, does anyone stop to think that Poland was ruled by a nasty military dictatorship before the German tanks rolled in? Of course that did not excuse the horrors then inflicted on those people by the Germans from the west and then USSR from the east. But their depiction as a helpless, innocent nation is a story made for propaganda purposes where the dictatorship issue spoils the victim narrative. Or that a Ugandan once told me that Milton Obote was much worse than his successor, the "Last King of Scotland"; and no worse than many other African leaders (don't get me started on South Africa); but Obote was pro west and Amin was pro East. OK, the latter caused the influx of Asian immigrants into the UK and was integral to the Entebbe terrorism issue; but he was still possibly better for the Ugandans than Obote. There are undoubtedly a host of heroic countries and favoured regimes that have been despotic and fundamentally corrupt, but their activities have fallen under the radar as they were pro West. And so to Ukraine. Probably no angel, but it was a burgeoning, embryonic democracy with all the cultural legacy of a nation once under the USSR boot; and living on the edge of a larger more powerful and threatening neighbour who used to wear that boot. What would you expect it to be but one coming from that end of the stick and seeking to become more like western Europe on the other end. Then again, you are missing the point. Whether they were perfect or even far from it, their issues (which had no impact on Russian security) cannot excuse invasion and brutal annexation. As much as I regard the US as cousins I suspect its list of meddling and wars are also pretty extensive. 1947–1949: Intervening in the Greek civil war 1947–1970: Meddling in Italy's elections and supporting anti-communism activities 1945-1949: Intervening in China’s civil war and establishing Taiwan 1948: Supporting anti-government forces in Costa Rica's civil war 1949–1953: Supporting anti-communism activities in Albania 1949: Staging a coup in Syria (it was CIA’s first coup) 1950–1953: Korean War 1952: Intervening in the Egyptian Revolution of 1952 1953: Orchestrated a coup in Iran and overthrew the democratically elected leader 1954: Invaded Guatemala and installed a puppet 1956–1957: Plotting a coup in Syria 1957–1959: Supporting a coup in Indonesia 1958: Creating a crisis in Lebanon 1960–1961: Supporting a coup in the Congo 1960: Meddling in Laos’ reforms 1961: Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba 1961–1975: Supporting civil war and OPIUM TRADE in Laos (look up “Air America”) 1961–1964: Supporting anti-government activities in Brazil 1963: Supporting civil strife in Iraq 1963: Supporting riots in Ecuador 1963–1975: Vietnam War 1964: Intervening in Congo’s rebellion (and bombing) 1965–1966: Intervening in Dominica's civil war 1965–1967: Installing, arming and aiding fascist Indonesian military government’s massacre of communists (2-3 million killed) 1966: Engineering an insurgency in Ghana 1966–1969: Creating conflicts in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), which is a region on the Korean peninsula that demarcates North Korea from South Korea 1966–1967: Supporting an insurgency in Bolivia 1967: Intervening in the change of the Greek government 1967–1975: Intervening in Cambodia's civil war 1970: Meddling in Oman's domestic affairs 1970–1973: Aided a military coup in Chile (overthrew democratically elected and popular progressive leader, Salvador Allende) 1970–1973: Orchestrating a coup in Cambodia 1971: Supporting a coup in Bolivia 1972–1975: Assisting anti-government forces in Iraq 1976: Supporting a coup in Argentina 1976–1992: Intervening in Angola's domestic affairs 1977–1988: Supporting a coup in pakistan 1979–1993: Supporting anti-government forces in Cambodia 1979–1989: Arming, funding, training the Mujahedin in Afghanistan. This led to Al Qaeda and the largest network of Islamic terrorist groups in the world. 1979–1989: Used Saddam Hussein to wage a proxy war against Iraq. Funded and armed Saddam for ten years. 1980–1989: Financed anti-government Solidarity trade union in Poland 1980–1992: Meddling in El Salvador's civil war 1981: Attacking Libya in Gulf of Sidra 1981–1982: Engineering regime change in Chad 1982–1984: Participating in a multilateral intervention in Lebanon 1982–1989: Supporting anti-government forces in Nicaragua (the U.S. armed fascists, death squads, drug lords etc.) 1983: Invading Grenada 1986: Invading Gulf of Sidra, Libya 1986: Bombing Libya 1988: Shooting down an Iranian airliner 1988: Sending troops to Honduras 1989: Attacking Libya in Tobruk 1989: Intervening in the Philippines' domestic affairs 1989–1990: Invading Panama 1990–1991: Persian Gulf War, Part 1 1991: Intervening in Haiti's elections 1991–2003: Leading the enforcement action to establish a no-fly zone in Iraq 1992–1995: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the first time 1992–1995: Intervening in the Bosnian War 1994–1995: Sending troops to Haiti 1996: Supporting a coup in Iraq 1997: Sending troops to Albania 1997: Sending troops to Sierra Leone 1998–1999: Waging the Kosovo War 1998: Launching cruise missile attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan 1998–1999: Sending troops to Kenya and Tanzania 2001–present: War on Afghanistan 2002: Sending troops to Côte d'Ivoire 2003: Orchestrating color revolution in Georgia and installing a pro-US government 2003–present: Iraq War, Part 2 2004–now: Inciting wars between pakistan and Afghanistan in their contiguous areas 2004: Orchestrating color revolution in Ukraine and installing a pro-US government 2006–2007: Supporting Fatah, a Palestinian political and military organization, in overthrowing the elected government of Hamas 2007–present: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the second time 2009: Supporting a coup in Honduras 2011: Supporting anti-government forces in Libya 2011–present: Arming, funding, training jihadists, Al Qaeda, and “moderate rebels” in Syria. Occasionally bombing Syria. And occupying the oil-rich parts of Syria. 2011–2017: Carrying out military operations in Uganda 2014: Orchestrating a color revolution in Ukraine and overthrowing a democratically elected leader. 2014–present: Leading the intervention actions in Iraq 2015–now: Arming, directing Saudi Arabia's participation in Yemen's civil war 2017-2019: Attempting regime change in Venezuela 2012-2020: Funding, orchestrating riots in Hong Kong. 2019: Supporting a military coup in Bolivia
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Sep 22 5.40pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
As much as I regard the US as cousins I suspect its list of meddling and wars are also pretty extensive. 1947–1949: Intervening in the Greek civil war 1947–1970: Meddling in Italy's elections and supporting anti-communism activities 1945-1949: Intervening in China’s civil war and establishing Taiwan 1948: Supporting anti-government forces in Costa Rica's civil war 1949–1953: Supporting anti-communism activities in Albania 1949: Staging a coup in Syria (it was CIA’s first coup) 1950–1953: Korean War 1952: Intervening in the Egyptian Revolution of 1952 1953: Orchestrated a coup in Iran and overthrew the democratically elected leader 1954: Invaded Guatemala and installed a puppet 1956–1957: Plotting a coup in Syria 1957–1959: Supporting a coup in Indonesia 1958: Creating a crisis in Lebanon 1960–1961: Supporting a coup in the Congo 1960: Meddling in Laos’ reforms 1961: Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba 1961–1975: Supporting civil war and OPIUM TRADE in Laos (look up “Air America”) 1961–1964: Supporting anti-government activities in Brazil 1963: Supporting civil strife in Iraq 1963: Supporting riots in Ecuador 1963–1975: Vietnam War 1964: Intervening in Congo’s rebellion (and bombing) 1965–1966: Intervening in Dominica's civil war 1965–1967: Installing, arming and aiding fascist Indonesian military government’s massacre of communists (2-3 million killed) 1966: Engineering an insurgency in Ghana 1966–1969: Creating conflicts in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), which is a region on the Korean peninsula that demarcates North Korea from South Korea 1966–1967: Supporting an insurgency in Bolivia 1967: Intervening in the change of the Greek government 1967–1975: Intervening in Cambodia's civil war 1970: Meddling in Oman's domestic affairs 1970–1973: Aided a military coup in Chile (overthrew democratically elected and popular progressive leader, Salvador Allende) 1970–1973: Orchestrating a coup in Cambodia 1971: Supporting a coup in Bolivia 1972–1975: Assisting anti-government forces in Iraq 1976: Supporting a coup in Argentina 1976–1992: Intervening in Angola's domestic affairs 1977–1988: Supporting a coup in pakistan 1979–1993: Supporting anti-government forces in Cambodia 1979–1989: Arming, funding, training the Mujahedin in Afghanistan. This led to Al Qaeda and the largest network of Islamic terrorist groups in the world. 1979–1989: Used Saddam Hussein to wage a proxy war against Iraq. Funded and armed Saddam for ten years. 1980–1989: Financed anti-government Solidarity trade union in Poland 1980–1992: Meddling in El Salvador's civil war 1981: Attacking Libya in Gulf of Sidra 1981–1982: Engineering regime change in Chad 1982–1984: Participating in a multilateral intervention in Lebanon 1982–1989: Supporting anti-government forces in Nicaragua (the U.S. armed fascists, death squads, drug lords etc.) 1983: Invading Grenada 1986: Invading Gulf of Sidra, Libya 1986: Bombing Libya 1988: Shooting down an Iranian airliner 1988: Sending troops to Honduras 1989: Attacking Libya in Tobruk 1989: Intervening in the Philippines' domestic affairs 1989–1990: Invading Panama 1990–1991: Persian Gulf War, Part 1 1991: Intervening in Haiti's elections 1991–2003: Leading the enforcement action to establish a no-fly zone in Iraq 1992–1995: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the first time 1992–1995: Intervening in the Bosnian War 1994–1995: Sending troops to Haiti 1996: Supporting a coup in Iraq 1997: Sending troops to Albania 1997: Sending troops to Sierra Leone 1998–1999: Waging the Kosovo War 1998: Launching cruise missile attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan 1998–1999: Sending troops to Kenya and Tanzania 2001–present: War on Afghanistan 2002: Sending troops to Côte d'Ivoire 2003: Orchestrating color revolution in Georgia and installing a pro-US government 2003–present: Iraq War, Part 2 2004–now: Inciting wars between pakistan and Afghanistan in their contiguous areas 2004: Orchestrating color revolution in Ukraine and installing a pro-US government 2006–2007: Supporting Fatah, a Palestinian political and military organization, in overthrowing the elected government of Hamas 2007–present: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the second time 2009: Supporting a coup in Honduras 2011: Supporting anti-government forces in Libya 2011–present: Arming, funding, training jihadists, Al Qaeda, and “moderate rebels” in Syria. Occasionally bombing Syria. And occupying the oil-rich parts of Syria. 2011–2017: Carrying out military operations in Uganda 2014: Orchestrating a color revolution in Ukraine and overthrowing a democratically elected leader. 2014–present: Leading the intervention actions in Iraq 2015–now: Arming, directing Saudi Arabia's participation in Yemen's civil war 2017-2019: Attempting regime change in Venezuela 2012-2020: Funding, orchestrating riots in Hong Kong. 2019: Supporting a military coup in Bolivia That's all fine, no one really minds - as long as Trump's not President.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Sep 22 5.42pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
That's all fine, no one really minds - as long as Trump's not President. Yep, the land of the free...free to sniff kids president.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 21 Sep 22 5.47pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yep, the land of the free...free to sniff kids president. The smell of a child's hair reminds him of when the rope at the New Amsterdam town well was made out of it.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Sep 22 6.27pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
The smell of a child's hair reminds him of when the rope at the New Amsterdam town well was made out of it. It's like being represented by a perverted ghoul.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 21 Sep 22 7.28pm |
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I'm hearing that mobilization agendas have already been handed to 300 thousand today. Considering that most males serve military service this is way under five percent of the Russian male population. They should appear at the military enlistment offices tomorrow morning from 5:00 to 7: 00. Ukraine still talking about increasing the numbers of women at the front line bill pass it first stage. As Russia is picking its most experienced reservists first the thinking is that they will be at the front within two weeks....or maybe longer who knows. Russia is expecting the front lines to be hot before the Ukrainians go on the defensive. The risk of nuclear war is now significantly higher and as Jordan Peterson says it would be considered it a major win if this was avoided as we are only escalating......no one wants to step down. There is going to be a sea of more blood. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Sep 2022 7.39pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Sep 22 7.43pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Completely subjective, like everything else you say. I'm not interested in what you think or your inventions. You are a physical coward who wants to cheer on other people fighting for your causes, even when some of them are forced to. Post at someone else.....you are a comment stalker.
For someone not interested in what I think you seem to be obsessed in reading what I have to say and addicted to answering. And you think I am a “stalker”! Very odd. I don’t care a jot who is posting the comment. I just contradict that which I regard as false. That you get more answers than others ought to be instructive. Just because I reject violence as a way to settle disputes doesn’t make me a physical coward. I have faced, and overcome, many physical problems with fortitude and good humour. Something I seriously doubt you could manage. I just follow the ethos of turning the other cheek, or even better, walking away, if threatened. I don’t provide succour to bullies and refuse to be provoked. Try it. It’s much more effective in the longer run. That’s what we are doing to Putin. It happens here too, although maybe it’s too subtle for some to recognise when! Edited by Wisbech Eagle (21 Sep 2022 7.48pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 21 Sep 22 7.55pm |
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Sorry I'm not a wimp. I don't talk tough and then rely upon others to throw my punches.....using a lot of flowerly language to dress it up as something else. I either throw my own punches or I don't get involved. No man should ever advocate for action that he wouldn't be willing to take himself. You seem more waffle than human. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Sep 2022 8.40pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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