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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 21 Sep 22 7.31am
Just reading some stuff from the speech now. 18-65yr olds not allowed to leave Russia Partial mobilization (whatever that means) (all Russians with prior military experience, the reserves & likely russkies outside of st Petersburg & Moscow getting their papers) Referendums for occupied territories. A very real threat about Nukes if Russian territory is compromised - see bullet point above this one. Edited by Ouzo Dan (21 Sep 2022 7.35am) The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 21 Sep 22 7.31am

Just reading some stuff from the speech now.

18-65yr olds not allowed to leave Russia
Partial mobilization (whatever that means) (all Russians with prior military experience, the reserves & likely russkies outside of st Petersburg & Moscow getting their papers)
Referendums for occupied territories.
A very real threat about Nukes if Russian territory is compromised - see bullet point above this one.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (21 Sep 2022 7.35am)

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 21 Sep 22 7.47am
Shoigu - 300,000 reservists will be drafted The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 21 Sep 22 7.47am

Shoigu - 300,000 reservists will be drafted

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Sep 22 8.56am
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan Just reading some stuff from the speech now. 18-65yr olds not allowed to leave Russia Partial mobilization (whatever that means) (all Russians with prior military experience, the reserves & likely russkies outside of st Petersburg & Moscow getting their papers) Referendums for occupied territories. A very real threat about Nukes if Russian territory is compromised - see bullet point above this one. Edited by Ouzo Dan (21 Sep 2022 7.35am) Not looking good. VP strikes me as having a Napoleon complex and it's now looking as though he can't possibly bear the thought of losing any face (many were acutely aware on this in any case). The talk of Nuclear Weapons is oft hyperbole however I think it shows his will to come out as 'victor' in all of this. What exactly that will look like I have no idea. I see several possible likelihoods, Putin securing certain regions of Ukraine and declaring that as victory, an all out invasion and taking of Ukraine... if not more, a long drawn out war (more so), I can only see the increasing of Western scrutiny with maybe support and whatever repercussions will come out with that or... other scenarios which I dare not consider at this moment in time. There's also the possibility or dissent within Russia however again the likelihood of that I am unsure. Sad to say, but the cost at which this might come has to be weighed against the motivation for involvement. I know not what that weighing scale may look like in reality however I have no trust whatsoever in the powers that be to do what's best for the people of this country. Let's hope there are some in those circles with the necessary knowledge who are able to guide them. Edited by Nicholas91 (21 Sep 2022 8.57am) Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Sep 22 8.56am

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

Just reading some stuff from the speech now.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (21 Sep 2022 7.35am)

Not looking good.

VP strikes me as having a Napoleon complex and it's now looking as though he can't possibly bear the thought of losing any face (many were acutely aware on this in any case). The talk of Nuclear Weapons is oft hyperbole however I think it shows his will to come out as 'victor' in all of this. What exactly that will look like I have no idea.

I see several possible likelihoods, Putin securing certain regions of Ukraine and declaring that as victory, an all out invasion and taking of Ukraine... if not more, a long drawn out war (more so), I can only see the increasing of Western scrutiny with maybe support and whatever repercussions will come out with that or... other scenarios which I dare not consider at this moment in time. There's also the possibility or dissent within Russia however again the likelihood of that I am unsure.

Sad to say, but the cost at which this might come has to be weighed against the motivation for involvement. I know not what that weighing scale may look like in reality however I have no trust whatsoever in the powers that be to do what's best for the people of this country. Let's hope there are some in those circles with the necessary knowledge who are able to guide them.

Edited by Nicholas91 (21 Sep 2022 8.57am)

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Sep 22 11.15am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays No I don't. Both those wars led to the destruction of the British empire and the influx of fifth columnists. We should have stayed out of both wars.....This country is now awash with a middle class with mixed loyalties....Maple. I have absent from the site for a few days as I have visitors, along with the Queen’s funeral taking precedence. Having caught up a little this morning I am glad to see others taking our resident appeaser to task. I am accused of always posting the same arguments but the kind of sentiment represented by the quote above must, in my opinion, never be allowed to stand unchallenged. If that means restating basic truths, so be it. That others have done so is reassuring. The quote above refers to our participation in both world wars. Can you imagine what life would be like had that view dominated? I am frequently shocked by some of the views expressed but none more than this. Today’s developments, alongside the other messages coming from Putin’s meetings with Xi and Erdogan, need, I think, to be taken together and put into context. My instinct is, and it’s no more than that, is that this is Putin adding weight to his side of the scales prior to some serious attempts to end this. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Sep 22 11.15am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

No I don't. Both those wars led to the destruction of the British empire and the influx of fifth columnists. We should have stayed out of both wars.....This country is now awash with a middle class with mixed loyalties....Maple.

I have absent from the site for a few days as I have visitors, along with the Queen’s funeral taking precedence. Having caught up a little this morning I am glad to see others taking our resident appeaser to task. I am accused of always posting the same arguments but the kind of sentiment represented by the quote above must, in my opinion, never be allowed to stand unchallenged. If that means restating basic truths, so be it.

That others have done so is reassuring.

The quote above refers to our participation in both world wars. Can you imagine what life would be like had that view dominated? I am frequently shocked by some of the views expressed but none more than this.

Today’s developments, alongside the other messages coming from Putin’s meetings with Xi and Erdogan, need, I think, to be taken together and put into context.

My instinct is, and it’s no more than that, is that this is Putin adding weight to his side of the scales prior to some serious attempts to end this.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Sep 22 11.22am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I have absent from the site for a few days as I have visitors, along with the Queen’s funeral taking precedence. Having caught up a little this morning I am glad to see others taking our resident appeaser to task. I am accused of always posting the same arguments but the kind of sentiment represented by the quote above must, in my opinion, never be allowed to stand unchallenged. If that means restating basic truths, so be it. That others have done so is reassuring. The quote above refers to our participation in both world wars. Can you imagine what life would be like had that view dominated? I am frequently shocked by some of the views expressed but none more than this. Today’s developments, alongside the other messages coming from Putin’s meetings with Xi and Erdogan, need, I think, to be taken together and put into context. My instinct is, and it’s no more than that, is that this is Putin adding weight to his side of the scales prior to some serious attempts to end this. I have no insight to really evaluate this comment (most of mine being speculative at best) but I sincerely hope you are correct Wisbech. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Sep 22 11.22am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That others have done so is reassuring.

Today’s developments, alongside the other messages coming from Putin’s meetings with Xi and Erdogan, need, I think, to be taken together and put into context.

My instinct is, and it’s no more than that, is that this is Putin adding weight to his side of the scales prior to some serious attempts to end this.

I have no insight to really evaluate this comment (most of mine being speculative at best) but I sincerely hope you are correct Wisbech.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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steeleye20 Croydon 21 Sep 22 11.34am
Will 'partial mobilisation' actually help? Vlads is desperate unless they are professionals they won't make any difference, probably make it even worse. Off with his head.
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steeleye20

Croydon 21 Sep 22 11.34am

Will 'partial mobilisation' actually help?

Vlads is desperate unless they are professionals they won't make any difference, probably make it even worse.

Off with his head.

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The Dolphin 21 Sep 22 11.37am
I read it as the rantings of a sick and mad man. It appears as if he wants referendums in specific areas to declare them Russian - at which point he will stop unless the West attacks them. What will happen if those regions attack the West is yet to be seen!
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The Dolphin

21 Sep 22 11.37am

I read it as the rantings of a sick and mad man.
It appears as if he wants referendums in specific areas to declare them Russian - at which point he will stop unless the West attacks them.
What will happen if those regions attack the West is yet to be seen!

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cryrst The garden of England 21 Sep 22 11.48am
Originally posted by steeleye20 Will 'partial mobilisation' actually help? Vlads is desperate unless they are professionals they won't make any difference, probably make it even worse. Off with his head. More meat for the grinder. The Ukraine army might be smaller and spread out leaner but most or a large proportion are time served experienced soldiers with weaponary that nato uses. These reservists are goner get ironed out in great numbers.
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cryrst

The garden of England 21 Sep 22 11.48am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Will 'partial mobilisation' actually help?

Vlads is desperate unless they are professionals they won't make any difference, probably make it even worse.

Off with his head.

More meat for the grinder. The Ukraine army might be smaller and spread out leaner but most or a large proportion are time served experienced soldiers with weaponary that nato uses. These reservists are goner get ironed out in great numbers.

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Stirlingsays 21 Sep 22 11.51am
I'm just happy for people to have their pointless war at this point. I'm totally fed up with it all. Apparently I'm the 'appeaser' but if someone wants peace in Russia I'm sure they would be called something else. Fed up with it, 'appeaser' is what all peace makers are called and its mostly by morons......I've made my positions clear and instead we will see the consequences of the neo cons....economic stupidity. If we survive, I say we are all going to end up in a worse situation with a big fat nothing burger to show for it. But I'm resigned to it now. Oh and what would life be like if we hadn't put ourselves into two world wars? Leicester would still be English that's one outcome. We wouldn't have an expanding Mosque building programme and growing tensions between expanding populations of Hindus and Muslims (the Muslims will force them out into their own areas eventually) Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Sep 2022 11.59am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Sep 22 11.51am

I'm just happy for people to have their pointless war at this point. I'm totally fed up with it all. Apparently I'm the 'appeaser' but if someone wants peace in Russia I'm sure they would be called something else. Fed up with it, 'appeaser' is what all peace makers are called and its mostly by morons......I've made my positions clear and instead we will see the consequences of the neo cons....economic stupidity.

If we survive, I say we are all going to end up in a worse situation with a big fat nothing burger to show for it. But I'm resigned to it now.

Oh and what would life be like if we hadn't put ourselves into two world wars? Leicester would still be English that's one outcome. We wouldn't have an expanding Mosque building programme and growing tensions between expanding populations of Hindus and Muslims (the Muslims will force them out into their own areas eventually)

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Sep 2022 11.59am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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silvertop Portishead 21 Sep 22 1.22pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I can't be bothered to go through the history of this when everyone thinks this conflict started in February....Whatever, it doesn't matter. If you want to think Putin is Hitler, then cool. This is it now, people decided they wanted to see the consequences of making this the hill we wanted to die on and now that's going to happen....I think it's fecking stupid.....So I can say it wasn't me but there you go. Sh1t will be going down....Hopefully nothing bad happens to us. Sudetenland also began long before German annexation. And it is not difficult to make parallels with Sudetenland or western Poland or Alsace Lorraine or, indeed, Schleswig Holstein where the Germans used the incorporation of already existing German speakers into the Fatherland as the excuse to annex. However, while you can make some comparisons with Hitler, it won't help in understanding or resolving the current crisis.
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silvertop

Portishead 21 Sep 22 1.22pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I can't be bothered to go through the history of this when everyone thinks this conflict started in February....Whatever, it doesn't matter. If you want to think Putin is Hitler, then cool.

This is it now, people decided they wanted to see the consequences of making this the hill we wanted to die on and now that's going to happen....I think it's fecking stupid.....So I can say it wasn't me but there you go.

Sh1t will be going down....Hopefully nothing bad happens to us.

Sudetenland also began long before German annexation. And it is not difficult to make parallels with Sudetenland or western Poland or Alsace Lorraine or, indeed, Schleswig Holstein where the Germans used the incorporation of already existing German speakers into the Fatherland as the excuse to annex.

However, while you can make some comparisons with Hitler, it won't help in understanding or resolving the current crisis.

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Stirlingsays 21 Sep 22 1.24pm
I've modified a couple of thoughts from other Ukraine war skeptics. 'Miss meals and go cold for the liberal world order.....who if you're conservative hates you, tears down your statues, imports savages into your cities, and erases your culture and history. But it’s worth it for a few billionaires who have ransacked Ukraine.' Liz Truss says higher energy bills are “a price worth paying.” - 6.8 million people skipping meals to stay afloat - 5 million households unable to heat their homes in winter - 1 million more children in absolute poverty by 2023 It's easy for her to say the price is worth paying but not for the vulnerable. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Sep 22 1.24pm

I've modified a couple of thoughts from other Ukraine war skeptics.

'Miss meals and go cold for the liberal world order.....who if you're conservative hates you, tears down your statues, imports savages into your cities, and erases your culture and history. But it’s worth it for a few billionaires who have ransacked Ukraine.'

Liz Truss says higher energy bills are “a price worth paying.”

- 6.8 million people skipping meals to stay afloat

- 5 million households unable to heat their homes in winter

- 1 million more children in absolute poverty by 2023

It's easy for her to say the price is worth paying but not for the vulnerable.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 21 Sep 22 1.25pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Will 'partial mobilisation' actually help? Vlads is desperate unless they are professionals they won't make any difference, probably make it even worse. Off with his head. Repurposing of factories to manufacture equipment for the war. These are reservists/former soldiers so come with plenty of experience. So far the Russians have equipped the DPR & LPR with junk equipment & more or less left them to scavenge for better stuff. Will be interesting if they equip these soldiers with better stuff or if they even have any better stuff left. The fact no men from the age of 18-65 can leave the country is telling, once Russia declares it's occupied territories Russian & Ukraine continues to fight in them full mobilisation will be ordered, Russia then has millions of reserves & former military personnel to call upon. Logistics will determine if these soldiers will make a difference or not. The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 21 Sep 22 1.25pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Will 'partial mobilisation' actually help?

Vlads is desperate unless they are professionals they won't make any difference, probably make it even worse.

Off with his head.

Repurposing of factories to manufacture equipment for the war.
These are reservists/former soldiers so come with plenty of experience.

So far the Russians have equipped the DPR & LPR with junk equipment & more or less left them to scavenge for better stuff.
Will be interesting if they equip these soldiers with better stuff or if they even have any better stuff left.

The fact no men from the age of 18-65 can leave the country is telling, once Russia declares it's occupied territories Russian & Ukraine continues to fight in them full mobilisation will be ordered, Russia then has millions of reserves & former military personnel to call upon.

Logistics will determine if these soldiers will make a difference or not.

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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