I don't remember no, but I'll take your word on it.

I make no claim that the Russian media or 'polls' are any less honest than Ukrainian ones...Also, it's a fact that opposition to the approved state position is also restricted in Russia (though opposition parties aren't banned and opposition media exists).

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I have no issue with people criticising Russia, however what grates is this requirement to whitewash the Ukrainian regime.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Sep 2022 8.00pm)

You are right Iraqi was US driven yes, but we still wasted our lives and resources fighting that pointless war.

The only politician who hasn't bent the knee to what the Americans wanted was Wilson in staying out of the Vietnam war......otherwise we have been the compliant client state....apparently it gives us a 'special relationship' where Biden slags us off over Ireland.

I know this is what you've been told. However look at the realities.

Russia's military totals a little over one million.

Tell me, if Putin was seriously wanting to go to war to reclaim the old Soviet Empire, why don't the Russian military number in the many millions.....because that is what would be needed.

This stuff is serious and these claims need to be looked at seriously to divide between truth and propaganda.

Smoke and mirrors.

As for former soviet states wanting to join Nato....sure I can understand that. However, what matters is what is best for us....Nato isn't the UN and wasn't set up to be.

The nineties were a missed opportunity to bring Russia into Nato but the politicians saw the organisation's role as essentially against Russia instead of one that ensures peace.....hence today.

I believe that Nato's mission has been abused....just as our forces were abused to fight in middle eastern wars for decades for absolutely no result.

Number of politicians and officials who had to answer for that?

None.

Similar to the number who will have to answer for the prolonged suffering that this war causes as well.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Sep 2022 8.23pm)

Certainly ours.

Not sure whether our presence would have made any difference on the ground to the outcome and/or the lives of Vietnamese. After all, Australia didn't; and I doubt we would have been given any more prominence at the table at that time.

Thus, I doubt whether we could have acted as a moderating force, restricting the use of agent orange etc., carpet bombing Laos and Cambodia - both still have UXBs killing civilians; and the latter being a principal cause of the rise of the Khmer Rouge.

We would have had no more influence than Nepal does on British deployment of Gurkhas. All that would have happened would have been dead Brits and broken vets returning to a deeply unsympathetic Britain.

Not joining that war was one of our best foreign policy decisions of modern times.

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Not sure what to make of this?

I know my initial thoughts (oooh, hmmm and maybe phew!) , however would any other posters care to share interpretation? Much appreciated!

That's interesting Stirling I had interpreted it differently. Also, thank you for the input.

I've had a lot going on personally in recent months so therefore can quite accurately be described as 'ignorant' of the bigger picture and of 'not paying attention' to this whole saga however I interpreted as some sort of leaning towards concession. For me, Erdogan would not speak out without Putin's 'thumbs up' and it is reminiscent of the old 'asking a mate to speak to a girl for you' playground tactic whereby ol' Vlad can't bring himself to formally or publicly acknowledge any concession. Quite pathetic to talk through another really.

I recognise completely that may be naive, or hopeful, at best on my behalf but it's the first sign I've seen of some sort of acknowledgement that this is in fact a proverbial excrement show and perhaps a move towards an ending, albeit perhaps not a satisfactory nor amicable one for both sides, may just be coming into sight.

I don't trust a word I hear on this from either side really (hence my asking other posters, would be sad the day I lost faith in other Palace fans) but remain committed in my condemnation of this war and will to see it come to an end.