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Gaza Strip 'invades' Israel.
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  SW19 CPFC  Addiscombe West 18 Oct 23 12.43pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
This isn't about cheering the deaths of civilians, it is about the bigger picture. I totally disagree that you 'have to choose a side or be forced into it' You just don't. You're only forced into it if you give in
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| YT Oxford 18 Oct 23 12.43pm |
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He's bargaining on Westminster granting Scotland independence immediately and closing the border.
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Oct 23 12.46pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You seem incapable of arguing your point without taking digs at people - it generally points to someone who knows they are making very weak points of their own, as you are here. It's his standard MO Shouting from abroad
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| Hrolf The Ganger 18 Oct 23 12.46pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
There is a correct answer. No. You cannot ever justify the killing of 135,000 mainly civilian people. Even more so when years later the detail comes out that the city was in fact of little military significance, despite what was used to justify (there's that word again) it at the time. I nearly brought Dresden up yesterday. It would have been interesting to understand the propaganda line at the time, and how the atrocity itself was reported, contained and justified. So you would have rather prolonged or potentially lost the war meaning the likely deaths of many more British and Americans and possible control by Nazis? I guess that is why we needed a Churchill and not someone like you.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 18 Oct 23 12.49pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I totally disagree that you 'have to choose a side or be forced into it' You just don't. You're only forced into it if you give in Time will tell. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 18 Oct 23 12.49pm |
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Abroad? now that's actually very funny unintentionally. Is Palestine abroad? Comedy gold
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| YT Oxford 18 Oct 23 12.49pm |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Biden arriving in Tel Aviv reminds me of Young Mr Grace coming out of the lift on the 1st floor of Grace Bros. Was his nurse with him, and was it the version played by the delectable Penny Irving?
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Oct 23 12.54pm |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Abroad? now that's actually very funny unintentionally. Is Palestine abroad? Comedy gold Language innit.
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 18 Oct 23 1.00pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
There is a correct answer. No. You cannot ever justify the killing of 135,000 mainly civilian people. Even more so when years later the detail comes out that the city was in fact of little military significance, despite what was used to justify (there's that word again) it at the time. I nearly brought Dresden up yesterday. It would have been interesting to understand the propaganda line at the time, and how the atrocity itself was reported, contained and justified. Are you saying 135,000 people were killed in the bombing of Dresden? At the time the Germans put the number at 22000 which rose a bit as bodies were discovered. The 135,000 number has long been totally discredited and 25000 is a horrific number but not as horrific as 135000 would be if it were anywhere near the reality. "According to the official German report Tagesbefehl (Order of the Day) no. 47 ("TB47" Your number of 135000 seems to have originated from Holocaust denier David Irving. Carry on Edited by HKOwen (18 Oct 2023 1.10pm)
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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issued on 22 March, the number of dead recovered by that date was 20,204, including 6,865 who were cremated on the Altmarkt square, and they expected the total number of deaths to be about 25,000.[92][93] Another report on 3 April put the number of corpses recovered at 22,096.[94] Three municipal and 17 rural cemeteries outside Dresden recorded up to 30 April 1945 a total of at least 21,895 buried bodies from the Dresden raids, including those cremated on the Altmarkt."| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Oct 23 1.01pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So you would have rather prolonged or potentially lost the war meaning the likely deaths of many more British and Americans and possible control by Nazis? I guess that is why we needed a Churchill and not someone like you. Drop the jingoism for a second and think rationally. Dresden's military sites and the railway system could have been targeted rather than deliberately wiping out an entire city. Even Churchill regretted that particular act. Much like Israel choosing to bomb indiscriminately, far less civilians could have been killed to create the same tactical outcome. Also – Dresden was important but let's not get carried away and say it was the sole reason the war ended. Edited by SW19 CPFC (18 Oct 2023 1.10pm)
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 18 Oct 23 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Are you saying 135,000 people were killed in the bombing of Dresden? Definitively? No. Estimates vary, between 25000 and 250000, sometime more... No one knows for sure. 'It is thought that some 25,000–35,000 civilians died in Dresden in the air attacks, though some estimates are as high as 250,000, given the influx of undocumented refugees that had fled to Dresden from the Eastern Front. Most of the victims were women, children, and the elderly.' I went with what was reported for some time afterwards, which is somewhere in the middle.
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 18 Oct 23 1.12pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Definitively? No. Estimates vary, between 25000 and 250000, sometime more... No one knows for sure. 'It is thought that some 25,000–35,000 civilians died in Dresden in the air attacks, though some estimates are as high as 250,000, given the influx of undocumented refugees that had fled to Dresden from the Eastern Front. Most of the victims were women, children, and the elderly.' I went with what was reported for some time afterwards, which is somewhere in the middle. 135,000 was floated around by David Irving. You are like Wisbech Eagle's padawan, but the force is not with you. Edited by HKOwen (18 Oct 2023 1.14pm)
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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