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eaglesdare 07 Mar 23 1.44pm | |
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Originally posted by footythoughts
If someones 80, it might be that it's not a bad idea to get boosters, it's not a concept that's unheard of. If your view is that people should make the decision they feel is right for them, it goes against your logic to laugh at someone making those choices. Yes that is my view. But do know what? after the last 3 years of s*** from covid zealots I will gladly laugh at them and look down on them now and give them a taste of thier own ridiculous medicine.
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footythoughts Beckenham 07 Mar 23 1.56pm | |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
Yes that is my view. But do know what? after the last 3 years of s*** from covid zealots I will gladly laugh at them and look down on them now and give them a taste of thier own ridiculous medicine. Point being I suppose that a great many people still getting vaccinated are likely ill or elderly rather than zealots. But yes I do appreciate the point that going all in on covid concerns is blinkered considering the knock on effect for other health conditions, businesses, the young. The worldwide nature of covid was likely going to screw people over anyway, but the restrictions for thee be not for me attitudes of those in power will certainly ensure that people are much less likely to listen in future.
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eaglesdare 07 Mar 23 2.23pm | |
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Originally posted by footythoughts
Point being I suppose that a great many people still getting vaccinated are likely ill or elderly rather than zealots. But yes I do appreciate the point that going all in on covid concerns is blinkered considering the knock on effect for other health conditions, businesses, the young. The worldwide nature of covid was likely going to screw people over anyway, but the restrictions for thee be not for me attitudes of those in power will certainly ensure that people are much less likely to listen in future. I dont mind people getting vaccinated. I fully support anyone who makes that decision its thier choice. When I refer to "Covid Zealots" I refer to those who were mandating people to get the vax and discriminating against people who chose not to get it for thier own personal or medical reasons, forcing people to get it against thier will. And those who campaigned for lockdowns, face masks, covid certs etc... I had to lie myself and get fake covid vaccine documents for work / travel. Somthing I never thought I would have to do in this world to survive.
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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 07 Mar 23 3.25pm | |
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I think it's the impinging on people's individual choices. What I found worrying, was the number of maskless groups of people wandering around supermarkets, encroaching on people's personal space restrictions and clearly putting those who felt more vulnerable (and had to do essential shopping) at increased risk of infection. Just one example.
I disengage, I turn the page. |
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Stirlingsays 07 Mar 23 3.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
I think it's the impinging on people's individual choices. What I found worrying, was the number of maskless groups of people wandering around supermarkets, encroaching on people's personal space restrictions and clearly putting those who felt more vulnerable (and had to do essential shopping) at increased risk of infection. Just one example. Again, this idea that by wearing a mask you were at decreased risk of infection is just unrealistic. By wearing the mask you were the person changing the normal dynamic. You can choose to believe whatever you wish to believe. However, the only people 'impinging' anyone's rights were the advocates for restricting the civil liberties of those not wearing masks or taking jabs. I was forced to wear a mask to shop at Tesco's, are you concerned about my 'rights'? Something never done before in this country and from the experience it seems the government are not keen to repeat it. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Mar 2023 4.00pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 07 Mar 23 5.52pm | |
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PJW on the lockdown files.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Mar 23 8.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
There are many reasons people don't get vaccinated beyond selfishness. This is, of course, true, and it's them that deserve the greatest support and protection from the idiots who could, but refuse.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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georgenorman 07 Mar 23 8.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This is, of course, true, and it's them that deserve the greatest support and protection from the idiots who could, but refuse. "So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot." [Orwell]
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Mar 23 8.54pm | |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
I really did touch a nerve there didint I. I like many people looked at the scientific evidence presented or lack there of and made an informed decision to not be vaccinated. Many people looked at the same and decided to get vaccinated. Some people just blindly did as they were told like sheep to wear masks, get the clot shot and stay in their homes. The only selfish people were the ones who made it all about them "oh you have to get the vax to save me" even tho it had little to no effect on transmissions. All the while your lord and masters partied in thier offices creating fear from "new strains" What are you on? your 4th 5th booster shot? you most likely still foolishly wear a mask out in the park on your own too! I laugh at you and all those other people! You routinely talk the most appalling bs! So much so it's not really worth bothering with you, as you are a lost cause. You touch no nerves at all. You just disappoint with your constant nonsense. You look at scientific evidence, extract the pieces you think support your views, and ignore the rest, along with simple common sense. You reference the Cochrane report, but draw completely the wrong conclusions from it. There were, and are, no appreciable negatives from the vaccines that outweigh the benefits. That's the overwhelming consensus of medical opinion. Anyone refusing to join in society's efforts to deal with the crisis is selfish in my opinion. We are all in this together, and we all need to fight it together. In war conscientious objectors still have to do their bit. This is a war and you aren't doing yours. That the slimeball Johnson and his fellows acted as they did doesn't change that in any way. It would be a neck and neck contest between them and you who behaved worse. Yes, I am fully vaccinated. Had Covid twice and the vaccines made sure the effect was mild. I don't wear masks now, unless it's demanded, but their use in the past, together with hand hygiene and social distancing enabled social contact to resume much earlier than it might. Not just by any actual protection benefit, but also by the reassurance they provided. Of course, none of that concerned you. You were too busy ignoring other people's feelings.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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eaglesdare 07 Mar 23 9.15pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You routinely talk the most appalling bs! So much so it's not really worth bothering with you, as you are a lost cause. You touch no nerves at all. You just disappoint with your constant nonsense. You look at scientific evidence, extract the pieces you think support your views, and ignore the rest, along with simple common sense. You reference the Cochrane report, but draw completely the wrong conclusions from it. There were, and are, no appreciable negatives from the vaccines that outweigh the benefits. That's the overwhelming consensus of medical opinion. Anyone refusing to join in society's efforts to deal with the crisis is selfish in my opinion. We are all in this together, and we all need to fight it together. In war conscientious objectors still have to do their bit. This is a war and you aren't doing yours. That the slimeball Johnson and his fellows acted as they did doesn't change that in any way. It would be a neck and neck contest between them and you who behaved worse. Yes, I am fully vaccinated. Had Covid twice and the vaccines made sure the effect was mild. I don't wear masks now, unless it's demanded, but their use in the past, together with hand hygiene and social distancing enabled social contact to resume much earlier than it might. Not just by any actual protection benefit, but also by the reassurance they provided. Of course, none of that concerned you. You were too busy ignoring other people's feelings. Absolutely ridiculous statements as per usual! Completely out of touch with reality and the real science. Science says that infection last longer and offers much better protection than the vax. You barely get 3-4 weeks protection from the vax if any at all! Why would I chance an unsafe vaccine with numerous dangerous side effects over a flu that has a 99.9 percent recovery rate if I catch it? All I see in your replies is a sheep going bah bah bah and only does as they are told. If the government told you it was safe to jump of a cliff I am sure you would have no hesitation in jumping! I mean it's completely safe! The fall won't kill you! Science is built on questions and Challenging ideas! Any question or challenge to this science people are now cancelled!
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Mar 23 10.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I agree, somewhat that the first lockdown was something that had an argument. As for unknowns and so on....Let's not forget that this isn't an unknown insomuch as new novel viruses have been turning up with human evolution since the start. Let's also acknowledge that pandemic policy was already in place and had been devised over generations of experience of fighting pandemics of the past. The Great Barrington declaration is an example of academics and health professionals having serious concerns over the divergent pathways that governments took from previous policy. If you have never heard of the Great Barrington declaration you can take that as further evidence for the systematic suppression of alternative opinions and approaches that marked this extremely illiberal governance. When it comes to your hindsight point. In fairness there were people on Hol stating the very same takes on this forum when these decisions were taken. So I think that is on a case by case basis. And let's sod anyone's ego, the cost to this country and added cost to the future youth has been beyond many's comprehension. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Mar 2023 1.41pm) Novel viruses have indeed been turning up since time began. They have also been decimating populations since time began. I think we will recover from this one, despite the negative impacts, faster than we did in the past. "The Great Barrington Declaration", as you well know, has been comprehensively debunked and its authors shown to not be all they claimed to be. No-one who looks at this objectively takes this seriously. I suppose it's little surprise that you do. You are another who values personal liberty above public duty. Personal liberty is as worthless a commodity as is personal pride. It is meaningless unless it exists within a functioning society. It's just ideology for its own sake, and it must, when necessary take second place to the need for us all, without exceptions, to pull together. Those who insist on having personal liberty at all costs need to isolate themselves from the rest of us. Hermits can achieve it, but not those who live amongst us.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 07 Mar 23 10.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
A surgeon who is infection free operating on an infection free patient will decide for themselves which is the safest way to proceed. There is no correlation with the steps taken to try to limit the spread of Covid. I have read the Cochrane report. It will doubtless, along with many others, inform on best practice when making assessments on how to respond if another pandemic occurs. When responding to the Covid pandemic, with a nervous population expecting actions to reassure them, and evidence of mask wearing in Asia in particular as a response to other viruses, mandating their use, alongside social distancing and lockdowns made, and continues to make, perfect sense. It might not again, as the public are now more aware. I wonder if you have read their report! Or whether you have only read the words you want to hear! This is the author's conclusion:-
There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection. Hand hygiene is likely to modestly reduce the burden of respiratory illness, and although this effect was also present when ILI and laboratory‐confirmed influenza were analysed separately, it was not found to be a significant difference for the latter two outcomes. Harms associated with physical interventions were under‐investigated. There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs." In other words the jury is still out, especially on the impact in our own country. What is not in doubt was the need to use every potential tool in the box in a crisis. Not allowing despondency to set in is an important issue in health management. The time for reflection and lesson learning comes later. Which is precisely why we are holding an enquiry and not rushing to judgement whenever something emerges which happens to confirm a deep-seated bias. What part of the highlighted text are you struggling to understand? The bias mentioned is about the actual conditions of the analysis. Some lab based trials, some 'live' ward trials, etc. So a difinitive conclusion cannot be drawn. But no clear reduction in respiratory viral infection, even if slightly overstated is no reason for expulsion from society for not wearing a mask. People lost jobs and were refused entry to public services without a mask. For no reason. And you were complicit.
Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers |
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