General Election 2017

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General Election 2017

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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 17 1.55pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Brexit had a majority of about 1.9% or so. The numbers who know just want the politicians to get on with Brexit are far more significant. 68 percent in an ICM poll this year. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Jun 17 1.55pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Brexit had a majority of about 1.9% or so.

The numbers who know just want the politicians to get on with Brexit are far more significant.

68 percent in an ICM poll this year.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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DanH SW2 07 Jun 17 1.57pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The numbers who know just want the politicians to get on with Brexit are far more significant. 68 percent in an ICM poll this year. Someone should have shown that poll to Theresa May before she called the election.
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DanH

SW2 07 Jun 17 1.57pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The numbers who know just want the politicians to get on with Brexit are far more significant.

68 percent in an ICM poll this year.

Someone should have shown that poll to Theresa May before she called the election.

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Jun 17 1.57pm
Originally posted by susmik You got that wrong mate. Here are the facts that are on the table: Yes the EU has said there will be an exit bill. From the European perspective, the UK will have to settle the bar tab before leaving the pub. It's ordered a bunch of rounds already and promised to buy its friends a whole bunch more. Basically the UK has to pay up for spending promised in the past and spending promised into the future. Although there are those in the UK government who have suggested it's more like being a member of a gym. When you leave you aren't asked to continue paying your fees so others can enjoy its benefits without you. The EU is tetchy about it being called a "Brexit bill" they say it's just about "settling accounts". :: So how much does the EU say we owe? It's been described (by European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker) as "hefty" and put as high as €100bn (£80bn). Until recently, the €60bn had been touted as the most likely figure because it is the sum the European Commission has arrived at, however, EU negotiators are now said to have put that closer to €100bn. But lawyers have told the UK Government it does not owe a penny and should actually be asking for money back. Brexit Secretary David Davis has said the figure should be "taken with a pinch of salt". If you sign a lease which has a break penalty in it you have to pay the penalty if you break is a much better analogy. The amount payable will depend on the wording and terms of the clause. Much of the "bill" is in contingent liabilities on EU loans to which the UK is a guarantor (legally) so it will be lower than 100bn as not all of these loans will be bad. There may well be grounds for arguing that UK is due something back from the EU or that budgets aren't legal obligations (I don't know if they are or not). But the loan guarantees are definite legal obligations. Like the rest of the negotiations I imagine there will have to be some give and take and perhaps the "bill" will have elements of clawback or overage (which seems sensible). Edited by CambridgeEagle (07 Jun 2017 1.59pm)
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 07 Jun 17 1.57pm

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Originally posted by susmik

You got that wrong mate. Here are the facts that are on the table:
Yes the EU has said there will be an exit bill.

From the European perspective, the UK will have to settle the bar tab before leaving the pub.

It's ordered a bunch of rounds already and promised to buy its friends a whole bunch more.

Basically the UK has to pay up for spending promised in the past and spending promised into the future.

Although there are those in the UK government who have suggested it's more like being a member of a gym.

When you leave you aren't asked to continue paying your fees so others can enjoy its benefits without you.

The EU is tetchy about it being called a "Brexit bill" they say it's just about "settling accounts".

:: So how much does the EU say we owe?

It's been described (by European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker) as "hefty" and put as high as €100bn (£80bn).

Until recently, the €60bn had been touted as the most likely figure because it is the sum the European Commission has arrived at, however, EU negotiators are now said to have put that closer to €100bn.

But lawyers have told the UK Government it does not owe a penny and should actually be asking for money back.
Brexit Secretary David Davis has said the figure should be "taken with a pinch of salt".

If you sign a lease which has a break penalty in it you have to pay the penalty if you break is a much better analogy. The amount payable will depend on the wording and terms of the clause.

Much of the "bill" is in contingent liabilities on EU loans to which the UK is a guarantor (legally) so it will be lower than 100bn as not all of these loans will be bad. There may well be grounds for arguing that UK is due something back from the EU or that budgets aren't legal obligations (I don't know if they are or not). But the loan guarantees are definite legal obligations.

Like the rest of the negotiations I imagine there will have to be some give and take and perhaps the "bill" will have elements of clawback or overage (which seems sensible).

Edited by CambridgeEagle (07 Jun 2017 1.59pm)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 17 1.58pm
Originally posted by We are goin up! There are many reasons for me to vote Conservative. I'm pro responsible spending and certainly pro investment in the right areas. The idea that the Tories are underspending is frankly a nonsense, they're spending a higher proportion of GDP [Link] than New Labour did. What I'm against is killing off small businesses with hikes in corporation tax, raising the minimum wage and abolishing zero hours contracts. I run a small business and I will have to lay off at least one member of staff if he gets in and I am far from an exploitative employer. Getting quite sick of hearing Corbyn say that people like me are the scourge in our society when I've provided jobs to people. It's really as simple as that. Corbyn does not represent the view that I have of the economy and what I think should be done with it. I'm also pro-Brexit and free trade and want to get those policies through. We can genuinely lift African farmers out of extreme poverty by trading with them, there's currently an obscene tariff on their exports meaning they can't trade with us. We get cheaper food, they get good business and become wealthier (and will one day use our financial services), making their government elites less powerful etc etc. That's another argument I suppose. I have many reservations about Theresa May, but the Conservatives in my eyes are the only option at this election. Are conservatives pro-responsible spending though. Cuts in the police in an era where terrorism is the primary national threat (which protecting military spending from Austerity). Cuts in Prison budgets, despite a still exceptionally high prison population, resulting in a significant reduction in guards. Education cuts, despite the fact that education in this country seems to be entirely now about producing PR figures, and a crisis in teacher retention. The NHS is underfunded and in crisis etc. Whilst I don't agree with New Labour and the borrow and spend mentality, I don't think that Conservatives are any more responsible. Labour borrow money and spend irresponsibly to get votes. The conservatives, cut spending irresponsibly and use tax cuts to get votes. I just want a government that will raise revenue responsibly and spend on services responsibly. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jun 17 1.58pm

Originally posted by We are goin up!

There are many reasons for me to vote Conservative.

I'm pro responsible spending and certainly pro investment in the right areas. The idea that the Tories are underspending is frankly a nonsense, they're spending a higher proportion of GDP [Link] than New Labour did.

What I'm against is killing off small businesses with hikes in corporation tax, raising the minimum wage and abolishing zero hours contracts. I run a small business and I will have to lay off at least one member of staff if he gets in and I am far from an exploitative employer. Getting quite sick of hearing Corbyn say that people like me are the scourge in our society when I've provided jobs to people.

It's really as simple as that. Corbyn does not represent the view that I have of the economy and what I think should be done with it.

I'm also pro-Brexit and free trade and want to get those policies through. We can genuinely lift African farmers out of extreme poverty by trading with them, there's currently an obscene tariff on their exports meaning they can't trade with us. We get cheaper food, they get good business and become wealthier (and will one day use our financial services), making their government elites less powerful etc etc. That's another argument I suppose.

I have many reservations about Theresa May, but the Conservatives in my eyes are the only option at this election.

Are conservatives pro-responsible spending though. Cuts in the police in an era where terrorism is the primary national threat (which protecting military spending from Austerity).

Cuts in Prison budgets, despite a still exceptionally high prison population, resulting in a significant reduction in guards.

Education cuts, despite the fact that education in this country seems to be entirely now about producing PR figures, and a crisis in teacher retention.

The NHS is underfunded and in crisis etc.

Whilst I don't agree with New Labour and the borrow and spend mentality, I don't think that Conservatives are any more responsible.

Labour borrow money and spend irresponsibly to get votes.

The conservatives, cut spending irresponsibly and use tax cuts to get votes.

I just want a government that will raise revenue responsibly and spend on services responsibly.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 07 Jun 17 1.59pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Brexit had a majority of about 1.9% or so. The should hold a follow up referendum tomorrow as well - the Brexit vote would increase significantly as the electorate have seen that all the scaremongering predictions have not come to pass. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 07 Jun 17 1.59pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Brexit had a majority of about 1.9% or so.

The should hold a follow up referendum tomorrow as well - the Brexit vote would increase significantly as the electorate have seen that all the scaremongering predictions have not come to pass.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 17 2.00pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The numbers who know just want the politicians to get on with Brexit are far more significant. 68 percent in an ICM poll this year. The number of people who are too stupid to realise that the politicians are getting on with Brexit is.... 68%.... "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jun 17 2.00pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The numbers who know just want the politicians to get on with Brexit are far more significant.

68 percent in an ICM poll this year.

The number of people who are too stupid to realise that the politicians are getting on with Brexit is.... 68%....

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Jun 17 2.01pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The should hold a follow up referendum tomorrow as well - the Brexit vote would increase significantly as the electorate have seen that all the scaremongering predictions have not come to pass. You do realise that Brexit still hasn't happened yet? I'm not anti-Brexit per se FYI - but I'm waiting for it to actually happen before passing judgement on its success or failure...
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 07 Jun 17 2.01pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

The should hold a follow up referendum tomorrow as well - the Brexit vote would increase significantly as the electorate have seen that all the scaremongering predictions have not come to pass.

You do realise that Brexit still hasn't happened yet?

I'm not anti-Brexit per se FYI - but I'm waiting for it to actually happen before passing judgement on its success or failure...

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 17 2.03pm
Originally posted by serial thriller We can win mate. Things don't have to be as they are, in fact things are inevitably changing, and they can change for the better if good, honest people stand up and make themselves heard. It's happened before and it will happen again. Tomorrow could be historic, a genuine people's movement overthrowing a corrupt and malicious government. See this, in part, is part of the problem with British Democracy, its seen as winning, not being elected to represent the British People. No one wins an election. Not really, they get the job of representing their local constituency. The fact we and parties often don't see it this way is a major issue. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jun 17 2.03pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

We can win mate. Things don't have to be as they are, in fact things are inevitably changing, and they can change for the better if good, honest people stand up and make themselves heard.

It's happened before and it will happen again. Tomorrow could be historic, a genuine people's movement overthrowing a corrupt and malicious government.

See this, in part, is part of the problem with British Democracy, its seen as winning, not being elected to represent the British People.

No one wins an election. Not really, they get the job of representing their local constituency.

The fact we and parties often don't see it this way is a major issue.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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DanH SW2 07 Jun 17 2.04pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle You do realise that Brexit still hasn't happened yet? I'm not anti-Brexit per se FYI - but I'm waiting for it to actually happen before passing judgement on its success or failure... The number of people who haven't quite grasped this quite basic and fundamental point is ridiculous.
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DanH

SW2 07 Jun 17 2.04pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You do realise that Brexit still hasn't happened yet?

I'm not anti-Brexit per se FYI - but I'm waiting for it to actually happen before passing judgement on its success or failure...

The number of people who haven't quite grasped this quite basic and fundamental point is ridiculous.

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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 17 2.05pm
Originally posted by DanH Someone should have shown that poll to Theresa May before she called the election. BS, nothing important is happening until after the German elections anyway. This was the window. After this election all effective opposition to the manner of Brexit negotiations will be stamped out. I'm really quite enjoying this. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Jun 17 2.05pm

Originally posted by DanH

Someone should have shown that poll to Theresa May before she called the election.

BS, nothing important is happening until after the German elections anyway. This was the window.

After this election all effective opposition to the manner of Brexit negotiations will be stamped out.

I'm really quite enjoying this.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 07 Jun 17 2.07pm
John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor: [from the New Statesman] "A lengthy 2006 interview with the Trotskyist Alliance for Workers’ Liberty ... Asked to name the “most significant” influences on his thought, McDonnell replied: “The fundamental Marxist writers of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky, basically.” We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 07 Jun 17 2.07pm

John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor: [from the New Statesman]
"A lengthy 2006 interview with the Trotskyist Alliance for Workers’ Liberty ... Asked to name the “most significant” influences on his thought, McDonnell replied: “The fundamental Marxist writers of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky, basically.”

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 17 2.07pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle You do realise that Brexit still hasn't happened yet? I'm not anti-Brexit per se FYI - but I'm waiting for it to actually happen before passing judgement on its success or failure... Maybe ten years after Brexit. The effect of something major like this is properly measured over time. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Jun 17 2.07pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You do realise that Brexit still hasn't happened yet?

I'm not anti-Brexit per se FYI - but I'm waiting for it to actually happen before passing judgement on its success or failure...

Maybe ten years after Brexit.

The effect of something major like this is properly measured over time.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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