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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 02 Sep 22 12.00pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I agree that we should build up our military significantly as should Nato. As usual the idiots have been doing the very opposite for decades and sneering countries like Germany outsourced their defence to the US.

However, where I differ is that we should take a combative approach to Russia. This isn't communism looking to take over. This is a new cold war that has been manufactured which never needed to happen.

We need to negotiate with Russia as part of Nato (yes, that should have always have been from a position of military strength even though it can't be now) not be involved in a absurd unnecessary death struggle with them.

I've said from the beginning that this war (once you look at it) isn't one we are likely to win. Russia hold most of the advantages.....it shouldn't be the hill we die on and should have been negotiated.

But we have low quality elites who have put us into this position, just as they did with covid.

It's a valid viewpoint in that militarily and territorially, Russia and China have always been rivals. There's been more flare ups at the Russian-Chinese border than a teenager's acne. No doubt, previous military doctrine would have been that a European war against China would have been fought in Russia.
However, we seem to have put the two together, whilst not being together or ready ourselves.
However, I personally don't think Russia could withstand even an Iraq sized NATO force. The procurement corruption has always meant that on paper everything looks fine but in reality, the Russian leadership is left scratching it's head at it's military incapability. Sometimes one wonders if the nukes would even work - not that anyone wants to find out.
As for China though, it's becoming like the Mongol hordes. It's not an exaggeration to say that NATO would not even have the ammo to shoot all of their soldiers. Estimates vary between ammo lasting from a day or two to a week or so. Sobering stuff really. We're the chickens in the coop, they're the foxes. And the US in particular, is not used to that - therein lies a big danger.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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W12 02 Sep 22 12.36pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Ending the cold war I agree, but what progress?

Russia was fleeced and the whole reason you have Putin is because of that.

Whatever you think of Putin, once he got in their standard of living rose considerably....that's factual.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Sep 2022 2.48pm)

Putin is popular in Russia because he represents Russian interests.

Gorbachev is popular in the west because he represented western interests.

The legacy of Gorbachev is not popular in Russia.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Sep 22 12.48pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Putin is popular in Russia because he represents Russian interests.

Gorbachev is popular in the west because he represented western interests.

The legacy of Gorbachev is not popular in Russia.

Gorbachev meant well but he misunderstood what the speed of opening up would do to the Russia system and economy: he trusted far too much.

The western media and politicians loved him because they benefited but the economic results for Russia drove them back into autocracy. Russia should have undergone something like the Marshall plan and been incorporated into a Nato that altered its purpose.....instead they decided to invest in pointless middle eastern wars...which other than Afghanistan they had no right to fight....Mmmm...Wonder why? Who benefited from that? Those angles aren't allowed.

But you have to look hard for that because criticism of western elites and their long term decisions regarding Russia because apparently means you think Putin or Russia are great.

That's the level we operate are....goodies and baddies, that's how dumb it is. Like reading the Sun's commentary where they put words in bold for emphasis to ensure the reader notices them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Sep 2022 12.50pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Matov Flag 02 Sep 22 12.49pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


But we have low quality elites who have put us into this position, just as they did with covid.

It is quite staggering.

In a way, I hope it all is a giant conspiracy, with strings being pulled behind the scenes and somebody manipulating us all by way of creating this chaos because the only other alternative is just that we are led by very, very, very stupid and/or venal people.

And therefore, given we elected them, ultimately its our own fault or at least a significant chunk of the responsibility falls on our collective shoulders.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Sep 22 12.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

It is quite staggering.

In a way, I hope it all is a giant conspiracy, with strings being pulled behind the scenes and somebody manipulating us all by way of creating this chaos because the only other alternative is just that we are led by very, very, very stupid and/or venal people.

And therefore, given we elected them, ultimately its our own fault or at least a significant chunk of the responsibility falls on our collective shoulders.

Democracy as taught to people is a romantic myth.

The media and education system are used to frame ideas and attitudes and electorally political choices and policies are restricted to what elites (both financial and social) will accept.

The marketplace of ideas doesn't exist.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Sep 22 3.04pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The Swedish government denied the people of Sweden, a vote on joining NATO. They said it was "too big" a decision for normal people to make. The Finnish people also didn't get a vote.

That kind of step should either in in a manifesto or be subject to a referendum.

Democracy?....not really, not a Democracy worth its propaganda....Not in my view anyway.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Sep 2022 3.07pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 03 Sep 22 9.48am

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 03 Sep 22 9.44pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Putin is popular in Russia because he represents Russian interests.

Gorbachev is popular in the west because he represented western interests.

The legacy of Gorbachev is not popular in Russia.

Whose interests do you represent?

 

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Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 04 Sep 22 7.10am Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

i find it somewhat bemusing (I am getting old), that Ukraine is falling so far from media headlines.
Gone are the fleeing Russian soldiers, abandoning their hardware. The war crimes committed by Russia, pending WW3.
NATO then does financial sanctions against a few Russians, a rather embarrassing response. Eventually sending some arms.

Now David Beckham's son's girlfriend isn't speaking to Victoria any more, and 'Liz' Truss has a new hair-do.

Civilians are still dying in an illegal war, and joe public is being distracted by someone being offensive to Emily Atack by saying "you look hot".

Totally discredited UK/Western media

 


I disengage, I turn the page.

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ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 04 Sep 22 11.18am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

I love the way they do it next to a Ukrainian flag so that there can be no doubt that Ukrainians are Nazis.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 04 Sep 22 1.01pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

i find it somewhat bemusing (I am getting old), that Ukraine is falling so far from media headlines.
Gone are the fleeing Russian soldiers, abandoning their hardware. The war crimes committed by Russia, pending WW3.
NATO then does financial sanctions against a few Russians, a rather embarrassing response. Eventually sending some arms.

Now David Beckham's son's girlfriend isn't speaking to Victoria any more, and 'Liz' Truss has a new hair-do.

Civilians are still dying in an illegal war, and joe public is being distracted by someone being offensive to Emily Atack by saying "you look hot".

Totally discredited UK/Western media

These are hot topics of our time. Charlotte big jugs from The Inbetweeners is a bigger ball breaker than Liz Truss.

On LBC this morning Tom Swarbrick tells his listeners that whether or not or us not being able to afford a war, we must find a way to pay for it. Sounds familiar. sums up the last few years.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (04 Sep 2022 4.21pm)

 


COYP

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Matov Flag 04 Sep 22 10.06pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Interesting chart from 'The Sun'.

In the interests of fairness I must say that based on my own research of the situation inside Russia this does not quite tally up with what I have seen/read/listened to, albeit as an outsider with the general sense being that quite a lot of food items have increased significantly in price.

But in terms of Western Media mood music, then a sign that perhaps the entire, and at times frankly ludicrous, pro-Ukranian slant is beginning to fade a little.

Big protests in both Prague and Cologne today about energy prices and have seen claims that a people in Europe are finding companies starting to close down domestic accounts, forcing people to switch to an increasingly limited amount of suppliers. Now that is not a new thing, and we have witnessed similar here but to see the numbers being claimed, and we are not even into anything approaching a colder month, and a portent of things to come.

Sanction.jpeg Attachment: Sanction.jpeg (78.48Kb)

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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