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Kermit8 Hevon 07 Jun 17 12.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Hansy
Tory have said they will get the best possible deal. They are negotiators. Corbyn just beleives they will get the access they want. Labour are willing to pay the full 100bn quoted, where are they going to get this then? The EU will do what they believe is right to keep the EU in tact. If the UK gets the same deal we had in there or similar, without having to pay the membership fees other countries will follow. Not something they want. No deal is better than a bad deal. If Liverpool wanted 100m for Sakho, should we buy him with the worry we might go under? Crap comparison I know, but it works in a similar way. We are obliged to pay what we owe whether it's £25bill, 50 or 100. Who will trade confidently with us if we walk away and renege on signed deals? No one in Europe that's for sure. Maybe we can trade with those lovely Islamic Fundamentalist regimes a bit more. The Tories will have to pay up too.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Jun 17 12.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Hansy
Tory have said they will get the best possible deal. They are negotiators. Corbyn just beleives they will get the access they want. Labour are willing to pay the full 100bn quoted, where are they going to get this then? The EU will do what they believe is right to keep the EU in tact. If the UK gets the same deal we had in there or similar, without having to pay the membership fees other countries will follow. Not something they want. No deal is better than a bad deal. If Liverpool wanted 100m for Sakho, should we buy him with the worry we might go under? Crap comparison I know, but it works in a similar way. Corbyn says the 100bn is a figure he doesn't recognise - i.e. he wouldn't just accept it. No deal is the worst possible deal. Your analogy is completely unfit for a relationship as complex as ours with the EU. No deal doesn't exist. There have to be certain rules and agreements to be able to do any trade, share security info or even go on holiday to Europe. Kier Starmer would be much better a negotiator IMO than anyone the Tories have to offer.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 07 Jun 17 12.29pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Corbyn says the 100bn is a figure he doesn't recognise - i.e. he wouldn't just accept it. No deal is the worst possible deal. Your analogy is completely unfit for a relationship as complex as ours with the EU. No deal doesn't exist. There have to be certain rules and agreements to be able to do any trade, share security info or even go on holiday to Europe. Kier Starmer would be much better a negotiator IMO than anyone the Tories have to offer. "Doesn't recognise" means he wouldn't pay it does it? It is just another example of the weasel words used by the 'man of principle'. When asked if he would reduce immigration he always says "free movement will cease with Brexit". Of course he does not say that he will introduce any immigration controls at all. He believes that immigration is a unmitigated blessing, no doubt he wants more.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Jun 17 12.32pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
"Doesn't recognise" means he wouldn't pay it does it? It is just another example of the weasel words used by the 'man of principle'. When asked if he would reduce immigration he always says "free movement will cease with Brexit". Of course he does not say that he will introduce any immigration controls at all. He believes that immigration is a unmitigated blessing, no doubt he wants more. Lol it's the EXACT same words used by David Davis.
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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 17 12.47pm | |
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Trump! Yeah, awkward but not for me son.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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hedgehog50 Croydon 07 Jun 17 12.52pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Lol it's the EXACT same words used by David Davis. Are they really? I can assure you that they are my words, I have not seen those of Davis. When and where did he say them?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 17 12.52pm | |
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In a world without accountants where everyone paid their taxes Labour might actually be worth looking at. Well, if you could hold your nose at their defence and security policies. Unfortunately we don't live in a world where Robin Hood actually wins.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 07 Jun 17 12.55pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Are they really? I can assure you that they are my words, I have not seen those of Davis. When and where did he say them? Yeah...Corbyn and Davies.....birds of a feather. Your point was right. Corbyn would probably be a supplicant while Davies will actually get a good deal in all likelihood.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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We are goin up! Coulsdon 07 Jun 17 12.58pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
You do realise that the graph showing shorter bars since New Labour left government means they have spent LESS as a % of GDP not more? Also that data is from 2013 and we've moved forward in time 4 years since then? It's fallen every year since 2010 as a % of GDP up to and including this year. Whatsmore our public spending is reasonably small compared to other economies around the world, so it can hardly be described as having been abnormally large. All these cuts, destroying public services, but still they miss every target on the deficit and debt. That simple graph also ignores aspects like the NHS funding gap (aka underfunding) and the cuts in school per pupil budgets and cuts in the police force just to name a couple. Labour's proposal for corporation tax would see CT on SMALL businesses at 20%. I assume you've overlooked that fact? He's actually said the opposite saying that small businesses are the lifeblood of the economy and it's big business that has had an unfair advantage and been exploitative. The increase in minimum wage would enable people to have a proper living wage and Labour have said they would look at providing tax breaks to small businesses impacted. Furthermore improvements in education and productivity resulting from investment in education and training will benefit businesses small and large. Neither party has said anything about specific trade deals, however I would imagine Labour would be more concerned with protecting workers rights while tackling world poverty than the Tories.
The idea that we should subsequently raise taxes on corporations (and by the way I can't find the 20% figure other than reintroducing a small profits tax rate which is something very different) to make ourselves even less competitive seems, again, mental. There is no evidence that mass spending by the state results in increased productivity and a stronger economy. See paper here: [Link] You're right on trade deals, but without Brexit we won't get trade deals anywhere other than the EU, and I'd rather we opened up our markets. The only way that's going to happen is by voting Tory.
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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Hansy 07 Jun 17 1.16pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Corbyn says the 100bn is a figure he doesn't recognise - i.e. he wouldn't just accept it. No deal is the worst possible deal. Your analogy is completely unfit for a relationship as complex as ours with the EU. No deal doesn't exist. There have to be certain rules and agreements to be able to do any trade, share security info or even go on holiday to Europe. Kier Starmer would be much better a negotiator IMO than anyone the Tories have to offer. Firstly we are only obliged to pay what is designated in the treaties. Not the full funding we agreed to until the end of the EU budget, which in that case we wouldn't need to negotiate until 2019 (Due to the next EU budget starting in 2021). This with the amount of assets we hold in development banks and funds to. No deal isn't the worst solution. From the WTO guidelines 1/3 of our goods imported/exported are not marked up in tariffs, with cars being the biggest % increase (10%) which we import. I'll stop now on Brexit, we have another thread for that.
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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 07 Jun 17 1.22pm | |
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Originally posted by Willo
In Australia, even in local elections, one has to vote else one is fined.Think it is 20 AUD for the first offence and 50 AUD thereafter.Believe the current exchange rate is about 1.6 AUD to £1. Yes but Rudi lives in Caterham not Australia?
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 07 Jun 17 1.27pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Where do you think all these people will go? Bear in mind the costings incorporate change of behaviour. I would end up paying more in tax if Labour win but I won't be leaving. I'm more likely to leave if Tories win as I value public services and my wife works in the NHS and it's disheartening to see what Jeremy *unt and the Tories have done to it over the last 7 years and the direction of travel they are committing to. Is that a promise??
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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