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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Aug 21 7.30am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
At least you and I are more on the same page than many others here who wouldn't rejoin in any circumstances. Our major difference is that I wanted to negotiate change from within, where we had some influence and leverage. Change that must happen or the EU will implode. I don't see the EU changing certainly not in the short time and they have no interest in inviting us back. For the Rejoin movement to take off I think the EU has to make the first move by offering us a new type of deal. Until that happens I don't detect any interest from people in the UK in a Rejoin campaign.
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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Aug 21 8.02am | |
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Job cuts at GB news? I have never seen it but I am not surprised. I said when it launched that I didn't see the appetite from the public, nothing to do with politics, but who watches the news these days let alone a 24 hour news station. John Humphries pointed out that audience figures for BBC and the other big News channels have halved in the last few years as viewing habits change. BBC can hide the costs of their news service as they are a general broadcaster so too can ITV and C4. GB News is a one trick pony so it sticks out like a sore thumb. I don't see it surviving certainly not in its current form.
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cryrst The garden of England 29 Aug 21 9.29am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I don't see the EU changing certainly not in the short time and they have no interest in inviting us back. For the Rejoin movement to take off I think the EU has to make the first move by offering us a new type of deal. Until that happens I don't detect any interest from people in the UK in a Rejoin campaign. Which pretty much means that the brexiteers are not against rejoining.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Aug 21 9.40am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You mean like all those people who voted for Brexit? I think you will find that my world view is realistic and yours is the stuff of idealistic left wing dreamers. Not at all. I know many people who voted for Brexit who are decent people and whose world view is not so dissimilar to mine, but disagreed with me over the EU and were more gullible to the disinformation. I know some who now regret it.
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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Aug 21 9.47am | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Which pretty much means that the brexiteers are not against rejoining. Yup never against the principle of EU membership just the practicalities of ceding sovereignty to them. NAFTA and the new Asian trade organisation we are trying to join is the way forward. A 2 speed EU is the way forward for outer members a free trade association whilst the inner group are full on political centralisation.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Aug 21 9.48am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yes, look how well that has gone since we joined. There is a growing sense that change is needed and that the tensions between the core northern countries and the southern ones must result in modifications. I presented a paper 40 years ago about the likelihood of a 2 speed Europe, and I suspect it is going to happen. It just takes a long time. The campaign to remain was poorly presented, but arguments in favour of the status quo are never as appealing as arguments for change. Promising dreams is always easier to sell than reality.
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Hrolf The Ganger 29 Aug 21 9.53am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not at all. I know many people who voted for Brexit who are decent people and whose world view is not so dissimilar to mine, but disagreed with me over the EU and were more gullible to the disinformation. I know some who now regret it. You are so yesterday. There will always be the spineless who crumble at the first sign of trouble.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Aug 21 9.57am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Yup never against the principle of EU membership just the practicalities of ceding sovereignty to them. NAFTA and the new Asian trade organisation we are trying to join is the way forward. A 2 speed EU is the way forward for outer members a free trade association whilst the inner group are full on political centralisation. Why do you believe that our sovereignty was ever in doubt? There was never the slightest chance we would cede it to the EU! The EU cannot force it, whatever the fearmongers might suggest. We would never agree to it, so it was always a non issue. The most to be expected would be a voluntary agreement between some EU nations for a closer integration of their political systems, as part of a 2 speed Europe.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Aug 21 10.06am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are so yesterday. There will always be the spineless who crumble at the first sign of trouble. That made me smile. You and your kind are so rooted in the past that you probably think dinosaurs roam on Clapham Common. The world has changed around you, and moaning about it won't achieve anything. We have to deal with what is, and not what was. We are too small to succeed alone as we no longer have the leverage, power or natural resources. It takes guts to admit that and then do what is best, not for yourself but for the younger and future generations.
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cryrst The garden of England 29 Aug 21 10.20am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not at all. I know many people who voted for Brexit who are decent people and whose world view is not so dissimilar to mine, but disagreed with me over the EU and were more gullible to the disinformation. I know some who now regret it. Veiled insults again. Why do people with a different opinion have to be gullible in your eyes. Just because the choice wasn't what you wanted. Also by the same token there are remain voters who now regret they hadn't voted for brexit.
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Teddy Eagle 29 Aug 21 11.43am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Why do you believe that our sovereignty was ever in doubt? There was never the slightest chance we would cede it to the EU! The EU cannot force it, whatever the fearmongers might suggest. We would never agree to it, so it was always a non issue. The most to be expected would be a voluntary agreement between some EU nations for a closer integration of their political systems, as part of a 2 speed Europe. Isn’t there already a 2-speed Europe considering only 9 countries are net contributors to its economy?
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Aug 21 11.56am | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Veiled insults again. Why do people with a different opinion have to be gullible in your eyes. Just because the choice wasn't what you wanted. Also by the same token there are remain voters who now regret they hadn't voted for brexit. Where you see insults, I just see the truth. That they might be uncomfortable truths is just unfortunate. They don't have to be gullible, and I am sure some of those who voted to Remain could be too. The difference was the type of campaign which each side fought. When you are making promises of a theoretical better tomorrow, the gullible are likely to believe it. If your campaign has to defend the well known, then the facts are already known and gullibility is much less of a factor.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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