If you believe that examining Trump's tax records is actually to do with tax then you are, once again, grasping the wrong end of the stick.

It has nothing to do with tax per se. It has everything to do with honesty, integrity and character.

The timing of the release is acknowledged as being political but that's only because it is framed by a huge political event. I support the motivation behind the timing which is no more election interference than any other politically motivated act.

The Dems, along with many decent Republicans, have made a "huge play" over election interference by a foreign influences with malign intentions which lead to the possibility of a President being compromised as a consequence. The NYT expose is not interfering. It is potentially exposing interference.

I DO care who holds the office of POTUS as they have a huge amount of influence which extends far beyond the shores of the USA. His running of the US economy (much of which is a myth anyway) is well down my list of importance. Foreign policy and international co-operation and leadership come much, much higher.

Pushing back against "far-left ideology" is another myth as such ideology only exists in tiny pockets in the USA and has just been invented as a bogeyman to rail against. That there is a slow drift towards modern social democratic thinking is to be welcomed but it is a million miles away from being "far-left".

Being out of step with the current British government, and their approach on Brexit and the USA, is something that every right minded citizen is duty bound to be. Thankfully once we have a Democratic POTUS and a majority in both Houses the tide will start to turn. We will have to slide down further before we start to climb back again but climb back we will.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Again, you are fine with this 'election interference' because it supports your aims, but you railed against the 'Russian' and whatever else interference because you view anything anti Trump as acceptable.

I think that when it comes to honesty and integrity and character the point could well be made that if you are going to criticise it in Trump you aren't displaying it yourself if you support a 'by any means possible' attitude against him.

And I'll make the point that the idea that a president is someone with these ideals is laughable. They are all liars and disingenuous because that's what climbing the political greasey pole demands. I think you hold up false ideals that don't apply and are myths in the modern political world.

Instead, I would suggest to you that unethical behaviour is part and parcel of both sides...all sides of any political process in any country actually and that we should accept that this is the case.

I'm not saying we should condone it but we should not pretend that because one side suits my political worldview that their sh1tty ethics isn't sh1tty.

Just accept that if you are going to travel through a sewer you are going to deal in sh1t and don't pretend otherwise.

Man, if I answered all this point by point this post would take forever.

So I'd say that I disagree with you on all of those paragraphs but I will concede that it was an interesting read that came across as an honest view.

And I always appreciate honesty whether I agree with the view or not.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Sep 2020 12.12pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Exactly this trump aint a decent guy but at least he doesn't have the audacity to be a pure evil c*** in private and a virtue signaller in public (biden, Clinton, Obama, Bush) Lefties always take the unhinged war potential stance which is just ridiculous if they really cared about peace they wouldn't vote in the party responsible for most of the conflicts in recent memory and total destabilising of the middle East. Bush should never of got involved in the middle East but at least they went in and had the courtesy to try and resolve the issues after they had been with a possible future government installed. Obama on the other hand went around destroying all the potential governments got drone strike happy totally destabilised Libya and then washed his hands of the whole thing now we have non stop war over there. Trump destroyed Isis with minimal involvement and cooperation with allies in the middle east. Trumps war and peace record s***s all over the Democrats end of.

So it may not be true? But you have chosen to believe it and anyone who disagrees with you are wrong/misinformed. Of course without actual proof it could be you that is wrong.... oh wait a minute you never are, apologies

Believing in a deep state is fair enough. It's almost impossible not to believe there is one which operates out of the US, and you can see how it is almost encouraged constitutionally, by having a Federal Reserve with such global financial authority, by having such a disproportionate military might in the world, by having a political set up which is so convoluted between state and national governance, and so dependent on large financial donations to operate.

But to think Trump isn't part of that? Are you serious? The first thing the guy did when he got in was lower taxes for the rich. He has stopped federal investigations in to global financial money laundering happening through the super deregulated states like Arizona and Delaware. He was best mates with Epstein FFS!

Support him if you believe in neoliberalism, or because you don't like immigrants, that's fine. But don't delude yourself that he is some kind of man of the people. If he touched your hand he'd probably feel the need to have a shower to cleanse himself.

Edited by serial thriller (30 Sep 2020 3.22pm)

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Did you read what I wrote? You are confusing election interference from a foreign source, which is illegal in the USA, with straightforward local politics. Whether it involves Trump or not makes no difference to that fact. That I support the political efforts does not mean I would support foreign interference on behalf of Biden. I would not.

That politics in the USA inhabits a dirty world which is no longer fit for purpose is undeniable. That some within it try to operate, as best they can, with integrity and honour is also undeniable. There are those, like Trump, for whom it is their natural environment and who see nothing wrong in corruption, lies or cruelty so long as it achieves results that suit them, and there are those who recognise the failings and would love to do something about them. They are not all the same. That's just a common myth spread by the corrupt to justify their corruption.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.