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Nigel Farage (LOCKED)

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 02 Nov 17 10.53pm
Originally posted by legaleagle Surely Nige should know the more acceptable way in anti-semitic circles to say such things nowadays is to reference the "conspiracy" as being Zionist rather than Jewish.. But do you agree with what Nige has said here?
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 02 Nov 17 10.53pm

Originally posted by legaleagle

Surely Nige should know the more acceptable way in anti-semitic circles to say such things nowadays is to reference the "conspiracy" as being Zionist rather than Jewish..

But do you agree with what Nige has said here?

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legaleagle 02 Nov 17 10.55pm
Nah. Though his use of the term "Jews" says a lot about him and dodginess(ie an ethnic group in its entirety as opposed to a state government,like Russia)Though if he'd said people might want to look at China as well as Russia,I'd have agreed with him. Edited by legaleagle (02 Nov 2017 11.01pm)
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legaleagle

02 Nov 17 10.55pm

Nah. Though his use of the term "Jews" says a lot about him and dodginess(ie an ethnic group in its entirety as opposed to a state government,like Russia)Though if he'd said people might want to look at China as well as Russia,I'd have agreed with him.

Edited by legaleagle (02 Nov 2017 11.01pm)

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 02 Nov 17 11.28pm
Originally posted by legaleagle Nah. Though his use of the term "Jews" says a lot about him and dodginess(ie an ethnic group in its entirety as opposed to a state government,like Russia)Though if he'd said people might want to look at China as well as Russia,I'd have agreed with him. Edited by legaleagle (02 Nov 2017 11.01pm) The headline said "Jews" and he was referring to the "Jewish lobby" and the context was specifically about the USA. If he felt China was a problem, then I'm sure he would have said so. The Jews do hold a lot of sway though. Bankers, Hollywood... Not necessarily in a bad way... I live in a Jewish neighbourhood. Edited by Penge Eagle (02 Nov 2017 11.35pm)
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 02 Nov 17 11.28pm

Originally posted by legaleagle

Edited by legaleagle (02 Nov 2017 11.01pm)

The headline said "Jews" and he was referring to the "Jewish lobby" and the context was specifically about the USA. If he felt China was a problem, then I'm sure he would have said so.

The Jews do hold a lot of sway though. Bankers, Hollywood... Not necessarily in a bad way... I live in a Jewish neighbourhood.

Edited by Penge Eagle (02 Nov 2017 11.35pm)

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Stirlingsays 03 Nov 17 1.40am
The Jewish community hold a lot of influence in the US. It's the attitude of the US that helped them survive as a state back in 48. They either tend to live there or Israel....Europe has stupidly allowed them to be chased out. It's certainly true to comment upon the reality that they are a political lobby in the US. I couldn't say if this is a good or not so good thing...perhaps not. I'm conflicted on western middle eastern policy regarding Palestinians. In terms of western secularism I view Jews as a big plus. The vast majority fully integrate, are secular, work hard and don't cause trouble. Their pious don't cause problems either. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2017 1.46am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Nov 17 1.40am

The Jewish community hold a lot of influence in the US. It's the attitude of the US that helped them survive as a state back in 48. They either tend to live there or Israel....Europe has stupidly allowed them to be chased out.

It's certainly true to comment upon the reality that they are a political lobby in the US. I couldn't say if this is a good or not so good thing...perhaps not. I'm conflicted on western middle eastern policy regarding Palestinians.

In terms of western secularism I view Jews as a big plus. The vast majority fully integrate, are secular, work hard and don't cause trouble. Their pious don't cause problems either.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2017 1.46am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kermit8 Hevon 03 Nov 17 9.33am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The Jewish community hold a lot of influence in the US. It's the attitude of the US that helped them survive as a state back in 48. They either tend to live there or Israel....Europe has stupidly allowed them to be chased out. It's certainly true to comment upon the reality that they are a political lobby in the US. I couldn't say if this is a good or not so good thing...perhaps not. I'm conflicted on western middle eastern policy regarding Palestinians. In terms of western secularism I view Jews as a big plus. The vast majority fully integrate, are secular, work hard and don't cause trouble. Their pious don't cause problems either. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2017 1.46am) I think you will agree though that anti-semitism in Europe - the pogroms in Russia, Germany, etc - has been a helluvalot worse before than it is now. Jewish Population stats in Europe 1900 9 milllion 1933 9.5 million 1960 3.2 million 1991 2 million The 1960-91 loss of 60% of European Jewry is massive. Wonder why that was? Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 03 Nov 17 9.33am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

In terms of western secularism I view Jews as a big plus. The vast majority fully integrate, are secular, work hard and don't cause trouble. Their pious don't cause problems either.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2017 1.46am)

I think you will agree though that anti-semitism in Europe - the pogroms in Russia, Germany, etc - has been a helluvalot worse before than it is now.

Jewish Population stats in Europe

1900 9 milllion

1933 9.5 million

1960 3.2 million

1991 2 million

The 1960-91 loss of 60% of European Jewry is massive. Wonder why that was?

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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legaleagle 03 Nov 17 10.08am
inter-marriage (a benefit of greater multi culturalism) and increased secularisation,though visit C and E Europe and the old hatreds are alive and well today, even where the Jewish population was wiped out (with the help of the locals)and the hoary old canards still recycled elsewhere in Europe and the US.. Edited by legaleagle (03 Nov 2017 10.11am)
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legaleagle

03 Nov 17 10.08am

inter-marriage (a benefit of greater multi culturalism) and increased secularisation,though visit C and E Europe and the old hatreds are alive and well today, even where the Jewish population was wiped out (with the help of the locals)and the hoary old canards still recycled elsewhere in Europe and the US..

Edited by legaleagle (03 Nov 2017 10.11am)

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legaleagle 03 Nov 17 10.21am
Originally posted by Penge Eagle The headline said "Jews" and he was referring to the "Jewish lobby" and the context was specifically about the USA. If he felt China was a problem, then I'm sure he would have said so. The Jews do hold a lot of sway though. Bankers, Hollywood... Not necessarily in a bad way... I live in a Jewish neighbourhood. Edited by Penge Eagle (02 Nov 2017 11.35pm) Fairfax? You fall for the canard...its not 'the jews' ,the hoary old canard so beloved of anti semites through the ages...its some jewish people who have some attributes,just like some Brits,some christians and some muslims. I've come across powerful Jewish cnuts in the film world but also Catholic ones and Protestant ones...Same with LA lawyers and bankers,whether here or in the US... Espousers of the canards only ever talk about the first group,and as if they act as a conspiratorial collective Sure,there is a very active and effective Pro-Israel lobby in the US (nothing compared with what our lobby there got up to in 1939-41,mind you or the Chinese industrial espionage)..and a majority of those in it are Jewish (quite a lot aren't). Funnily enough we Jews aren't all the same,but human beings as diverse and different as any other group be it muslims,or s london football fans
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legaleagle

03 Nov 17 10.21am

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

The headline said "Jews" and he was referring to the "Jewish lobby" and the context was specifically about the USA. If he felt China was a problem, then I'm sure he would have said so.

The Jews do hold a lot of sway though. Bankers, Hollywood... Not necessarily in a bad way... I live in a Jewish neighbourhood.

Edited by Penge Eagle (02 Nov 2017 11.35pm)

Fairfax?

You fall for the canard...its not 'the jews' ,the hoary old canard so beloved of anti semites through the ages...its some jewish people who have some attributes,just like some Brits,some christians and some muslims.

I've come across powerful Jewish cnuts in the film world but also Catholic ones and Protestant ones...Same with LA lawyers and bankers,whether here or in the US... Espousers of the canards only ever talk about the first group,and as if they act as a conspiratorial collective

Sure,there is a very active and effective Pro-Israel lobby in the US (nothing compared with what our lobby there got up to in 1939-41,mind you or the Chinese industrial espionage)..and a majority of those in it are Jewish (quite a lot aren't).

Funnily enough we Jews aren't all the same,but human beings as diverse and different as any other group be it muslims,or s london football fans

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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Nov 17 10.58am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The Jewish community hold a lot of influence in the US. It's the attitude of the US that helped them survive as a state back in 48. They either tend to live there or Israel....Europe has stupidly allowed them to be chased out. It's certainly true to comment upon the reality that they are a political lobby in the US. I couldn't say if this is a good or not so good thing...perhaps not. I'm conflicted on western middle eastern policy regarding Palestinians. In terms of western secularism I view Jews as a big plus. The vast majority fully integrate, are secular, work hard and don't cause trouble. Their pious don't cause problems either. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2017 1.46am) Well except of course in Israel and the Occupied territories. Extremist factions of Judaism have been involved in what we'd call terrorism as well (going so far as to assassinate a Israeli leader) - as well as actions aimed at Palestinians. They also have support within the Israeli government, and their influence has arguably not helped form anything approaching a peaceful solution in the middle east (Lukid has a very strong support among the hardline and fundamentalist Jewish sects). These factions also aren't exactly well known for their integration across the west either, tending to form isolated communities, that shun outsiders and stick to strict religious laws not entirely dissimilar to many of the strict Muslim sects. Problem of Fundamentalism is that its always a negative value to a secular society or alienated within it, due to the stubborn refusal to change based on reason. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 03 Nov 17 10.58am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

In terms of western secularism I view Jews as a big plus. The vast majority fully integrate, are secular, work hard and don't cause trouble. Their pious don't cause problems either.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2017 1.46am)

Well except of course in Israel and the Occupied territories. Extremist factions of Judaism have been involved in what we'd call terrorism as well (going so far as to assassinate a Israeli leader) - as well as actions aimed at Palestinians. They also have support within the Israeli government, and their influence has arguably not helped form anything approaching a peaceful solution in the middle east (Lukid has a very strong support among the hardline and fundamentalist Jewish sects).

These factions also aren't exactly well known for their integration across the west either, tending to form isolated communities, that shun outsiders and stick to strict religious laws not entirely dissimilar to many of the strict Muslim sects.

Problem of Fundamentalism is that its always a negative value to a secular society or alienated within it, due to the stubborn refusal to change based on reason.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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legaleagle 03 Nov 17 11.03am
quote=jamiemartin721;3262551] Problem of Fundamentalism is that its always a negative value to a secular society or alienated within it, due to the stubborn refusal to change based on reason. Yup.Same with non religious fundamentalism.As,I think, Mapletree posted on another thread recently,life is comprised of shades of grey (not necessarily 50 though!).Though in a liberal democracy,not sure we should be banning religious fundamentalists for that reason Edited by legaleagle (03 Nov 2017 12.33pm)
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legaleagle

03 Nov 17 11.03am

quote=jamiemartin721;3262551]

Problem of Fundamentalism is that its always a negative value to a secular society or alienated within it, due to the stubborn refusal to change based on reason.

Yup.Same with non religious fundamentalism.As,I think, Mapletree posted on another thread recently,life is comprised of shades of grey (not necessarily 50 though!).Though in a liberal democracy,not sure we should be banning religious fundamentalists for that reason

Edited by legaleagle (03 Nov 2017 12.33pm)

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Kermit8 Hevon 03 Nov 17 11.04am
The Israel Lobby exists in the US and the largest group behind that are a Christian organisation. The 'Jewish' Lobby is a just an easy term for hoary old racists to use in order to fling around their paranoid sh1te about a whole group. Go for it Nige you hoary old Palace fan you. Oh, you already did. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 03 Nov 17 11.04am

The Israel Lobby exists in the US and the largest group behind that are a Christian organisation.

The 'Jewish' Lobby is a just an easy term for hoary old racists to use in order to fling around their paranoid sh1te about a whole group.

Go for it Nige you hoary old Palace fan you. Oh, you already did.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 03 Nov 17 11.13am
Originally posted by Kermit8 The Israel Lobby exists in the US and the largest group behind that are a Christian organisation. The 'Jewish' Lobby is a just an easy term for hoary old racists to use in order to fling around their paranoid sh1te about a whole group. Go for it Nige you hoary old Palace fan you. Oh, you already did. Are all those Faragites that kept shouting about anti Semite accusations at labour are staring at their shoes now mumbling about this being different?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 03 Nov 17 11.13am

Originally posted by Kermit8

The Israel Lobby exists in the US and the largest group behind that are a Christian organisation.

The 'Jewish' Lobby is a just an easy term for hoary old racists to use in order to fling around their paranoid sh1te about a whole group.

Go for it Nige you hoary old Palace fan you. Oh, you already did.

Are all those Faragites that kept shouting about anti Semite accusations at labour are staring at their shoes now mumbling about this being different?

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Stirlingsays 03 Nov 17 11.30am
Labour most definitely has an anti semitism problem. Mostly from its new intake of membership that came in with Corbyn. The Labour party, by its rules and principles isn't anti semitic. This is a party that has had many Jewish people in positions of influence. What Farage said was in no way anti semitic. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2017 11.31am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Nov 17 11.30am

Labour most definitely has an anti semitism problem. Mostly from its new intake of membership that came in with Corbyn.

The Labour party, by its rules and principles isn't anti semitic. This is a party that has had many Jewish people in positions of influence.

What Farage said was in no way anti semitic.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2017 11.31am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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