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General Election 2017
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  Hrolf The Ganger  06 Jun 17 11.54am |
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Yes I get it, but how would someone else doing business with them change anything to our advantage?
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Jun 17 11.56am |
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All this Saudi arms stuff is just squid-ink to cloud the issue of Corbyn's links to terrorists.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| legaleagle 06 Jun 17 11.57am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I agree that Saudi Arabia are problematical in their funding for Wahhabism. However I think it's simplistic and a nonsense to think that isolating Saudi Arabia is going to do any good at all. In fact on the balance of probabilities it is going to be counter productive. Firstly the house of Saud are the most effective counter to Iranian influence in the region. A long way down the line ultimately avoiding possibly even nuclear war between Israel and...probably an emboldened Iran.... which could pull everyone else in....that is the first concern and a rather good idea. Secondly giving the message to Saudi Arabia that we won't trade with you and view you as the enemy is only going to reduce our influence with it. The house of Saud has considerable economic power that it isn't wise to pick a fight with. However the house of Saud push their ultra conservative version of Islam through a propaganda budget similar in size to the old soviet union's. It has a powerful effect in the middle eastern region. Pushing the idea thought that Wahhabism has a hold in the UK mosques is not really looking into what problems that UK mosques actually have. You are looking in the wrong direction. Here is an informative article on the issue. The main problem of non integrationist social divide in the UK that feeds illiberal ideas into potential extremists doesn't come from from Saud it comes from pakistan. Islam in the UK needs reform....Integration solves a lot of the problems..look at Sikns for example....Reformers have been saying it for a long time and the so called 'progressives' have been ignoring them for just as long.
The Iran "threat" is vastly overstated by the Netanyahu regime and by Saudi,each for their own political agendas. Saudi has caused far more "damage" to "The west" in the past 20 years than Iran. Out of interest Stirling,how many British muslims do you mix with on a regular basis?
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| Stirlingsays 06 Jun 17 12.01pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
The link i posted is very long so here is a fragment but a very important one in understanding exactly what has been going on: None of this applies to the real problems we have in UK mosques.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 06 Jun 17 12.02pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You talk some old s***e. Changing government won't make any difference to that policy. We sell arms because if we didn't our enemies would. It makes no strategic sense for them to profit or have better relations with key states. Who are our enemies that have the means of doing this?
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Kermit8  Hevon 06 Jun 17 12.04pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yes I get it, but how would someone else doing business with them change anything to our advantage? Well, if we lessen our ties with them then, in turn, their influence here should hopefully diminish too. If we can block the form of Islam they export which clearly leads to extremity and terrorist mentality in a minority then, obviously, that is a way forward. But, as it stands, being friendly with them just encourages it. This is why most of our attackers are home-grown. They have been radicalised into ultra and extreme Wahhabism because it is out there just down the road for them to be exposed to. Cut off the snakes head. But, alas, May will still suck up to the saudis. Planning permissions for more of their mosques will be granted. Their preachers will be left alone. Business as usual, innit. Rather it wasn't. Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jun 2017 12.05pm)
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 06 Jun 17 12.04pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
None of this applies to the real problems we have in UK mosques. "The Saudis demanded religious conformity in return for their munificence, so Wahhabi rejection of all other forms of Islam as well as other faiths would reach as deeply into Bradford, England, and Buffalo, New York, as into pakistan, Jordan or Syria: everywhere gravely undermining Islam’s traditional pluralism. A whole generation of Muslims, therefore, has grown up with a maverick form of Islam that has given them a negative view of other faiths and an intolerantly sectarian understanding of their own. While not extremist per se, this is an outlook in which radicalism can develop."
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| Lyons550 Shirley 06 Jun 17 12.04pm |
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For the first time in my life I am really struggling in knowing which way to vote! will it be to taper austerity? The latter is at the moment the most appealing prospect.
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Jun 17 12.05pm |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
The Iran "threat" is vastly overstated by the Netanyahu regime and by Saudi,each for their own political agendas. Saudi has caused far more "damage" to "The west" in the past 20 years than Iran. Out of interest Stirling,how many British muslims do you mix with on a regular basis? The house of Saud is a problem for the west certainly but I reject your implied notion that the west can't ascertain Iran's threat level correctly. Muslims and me? Through teaching in IT departments over quite a few years. I know several. Read the article.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 06 Jun 17 12.07pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
All this Saudi arms stuff is just squid-ink to cloud the issue of Corbyn's links to terrorists. It's not just about 'the arms' more about the relationship we have with Saudi and their influence here. The sale of arms is purely the financial side of that relationship but the follow-on from it is the negative societal effects it has had on us because we are so beholden to them because of the dosh.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 06 Jun 17 12.08pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Who are our enemies that have the means of doing this? The Russians,the Chinese. Anyone who has the means.
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| Stirlingsays 06 Jun 17 12.08pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
"The Saudis demanded religious conformity in return for their munificence, so Wahhabi rejection of all other forms of Islam as well as other faiths would reach as deeply into Bradford, England, and Buffalo, New York, as into pakistan, Jordan or Syria: everywhere gravely undermining Islam’s traditional pluralism. A whole generation of Muslims, therefore, has grown up with a maverick form of Islam that has given them a negative view of other faiths and an intolerantly sectarian understanding of their own. While not extremist per se, this is an outlook in which radicalism can develop." Read the article I posted a link to. Deobandi Islam is the main influence within UK mosques.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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