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Hansy 06 Jun 17 10.51am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Exactly. What's more obnoxious? Being arrested at a protest 30 years ago outside the Old Bailey for supporting an independent Ireland and 'Troops Out' or our government selling billions of pound worth of arms last year to an overseas regime that actively finances a religious movement that propagates the terrorism that occurs here and seeks the downfall of the British state? Vote Tory and you are 100% enabling them to sell arms to them again and for Saudi to set up more Wahhabist inspired mosques here. Vote Tory and help extreme Islam at the same time. That's the nub of it. They will never ever do anything to offend Saudi Arabia. They will put them ahead of their own citizens. Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jun 2017 9.58am) And he wouldn't want to sell arms to his friends in Hamas and Hezbollah? I agree that we shouldn't be selling arms there, but to say this is a Tory problem, when Labour did the exact same is silly. Edited by Hansy (06 Jun 2017 10.52am)
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legaleagle 06 Jun 17 11.00am | |
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Two immediate ideas to counter the spread of islamist jihadism: 1. Review the activities of the World Muslim League...its the world wide body Saudis have used to spread Salafism globally. UK HQ is in Tottenham Court Road. 2. Downgrade ties with Saudi Arabia,including selling arms. That would be attacking a key causal factor rather than posturing. Who would be more likely to actually implement them? Not TM and the Tories. So,when people stop frothing and knee jerking, Corbyn has said some v sensible things. Internment would be about as successful as it was in N Ireland...ie not very.The thing is to isolate the jihadists within the wider muslim community (in which they are a small minority) and cut off the funding of the spread of salafist ideology on a mass scale at source.
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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.16am | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Being a supporter of terrorists that bomb Britain. King Salman thanks you for your tacit support and understanding and want's to name the next wahhabist mosque built near you in your honour.
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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.27am | |
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Originally posted by Hansy
And he wouldn't want to sell arms to his friends in Hamas and Hezbollah? I agree that we shouldn't be selling arms there, but to say this is a Tory problem, when Labour did the exact same is silly. Edited by Hansy (06 Jun 2017 10.52am) I don't think he would [sell arms to them] and the present danger is not them anyway. Hezbollah are shias, the enemies of the current terrorists, so aren't involved or interested in overseas plans attacking us, France, the US and other western countries and neither are Hamas. They have other fish to fry. Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jun 2017 11.28am)
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Hansy 06 Jun 17 11.34am | |
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But they still believe in the destruction of Jews and/or Israel. So what you're saying is our arms that we sell to Saudi Arabia are then shifted to ISIS? I probably need to understand the link between the two more, but it is because SA and ISIS have the same religion? Or because SA called a Religious Jihad against the Russians in Afghanistan that started it all? - Any links to description regarding the link will be helpful.
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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Jun 17 11.35am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Exactly. What's more obnoxious? Being arrested at a protest 30 years ago outside the Old Bailey for supporting an independent Ireland and 'Troops Out' or our government selling billions of pound worth of arms last year to an overseas regime that actively finances a religious movement that propagates the terrorism that occurs here and seeks the downfall of the British state? Vote Tory and you are 100% enabling them to sell arms to them again and for Saudi to set up more Wahhabist inspired mosques here. Vote Tory and help extreme Islam at the same time. That's the nub of it. They will never ever do anything to offend Saudi Arabia. They will put them ahead of their own citizens. Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jun 2017 9.58am) You talk some old s***e. Changing government won't make any difference to that policy. We sell arms because if we didn't our enemies would. It makes no strategic sense for them to profit or have better relations with key states.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Jun 17 11.36am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
King Salman thanks you for your tacit support and understanding and want's to name the next wahhabist mosque built near you in your honour. Can you tell His Majesty that there is no apostrophe in "wants".
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.46am | |
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Originally posted by Hansy
But they still believe in the destruction of Jews and/or Israel. So what you're saying is our arms that we sell to Saudi Arabia are then shifted to ISIS? I probably need to understand the link between the two more, but it is because SA and ISIS have the same religion? Or because SA called a Religious Jihad against the Russians in Afghanistan that started it all? - Any links to description regarding the link will be helpful. This will help. A good read it is too if not a tad disturbing.
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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.46am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You talk some old s***e. Changing government won't make any difference to that policy. We sell arms because if we didn't our enemies would. It makes no strategic sense for them to profit or have better relations with key states. And for you to peruse too
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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.47am | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Can you tell His Majesty that there is no apostrophe in "wants". His Majesty thanks you again and would like you to know the writing hand of his English teacher has now been cut off.
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Stirlingsays 06 Jun 17 11.51am | |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
Two immediate ideas to counter the spread of islamist jihadism: 1. Review the activities of the World Muslim League...its the world wide body Saudis have used to spread Salafism globally. UK HQ is in Tottenham Court Road. 2. Downgrade ties with Saudi Arabia,including selling arms. That would be attacking a key causal factor rather than posturing. Who would be more likely to actually implement them? Not TM and the Tories. So,when people stop frothing and knee jerking, Corbyn has said some v sensible things. Internment would be about as successful as it was in N Ireland...ie not very.The thing is to isolate the jihadists within the wider muslim community (in which they are a small minority) and cut off the funding of the spread of salafist ideology on a mass scale at source. I agree that Saudi Arabia are problematical in their funding for Wahhabism. However I think it's simplistic and a nonsense to think that isolating Saudi Arabia is going to do any good at all. In fact on the balance of probabilities it is going to be counter productive. Firstly the house of Saud are the most effective counter to Iranian influence in the region. A long way down the line ultimately avoiding possibly even nuclear war between Israel and...probably an emboldened Iran.... which could pull everyone else in....that is the first concern and a rather good idea. Secondly giving the message to Saudi Arabia that we won't trade with you and view you as the enemy is only going to reduce our influence with it. The house of Saud has considerable economic power that it isn't wise to pick a fight with. However the house of Saud push their ultra conservative version of Islam with a propaganda budget similar in size to the old soviet union's. It has a powerful effect in the middle eastern region and it is a problem. This problem is far more an issue from within that region though than it is here. We should always encourage western ideas with them. But ultimately it is about compromise. Pushing the idea thought that Wahhabism has a hold in the UK mosques is not really looking into what problems that UK mosques actually have. You are looking in the wrong direction. Here is an informative article on the issue. The main problem of non integrationist social divide in the UK that feeds illiberal ideas into potential extremists doesn't come from from Saud it comes from pakistan. The Deobandis Sunni form of Islam dominates British mosques.....Now if we only have Sufi Islam here I very much doubt we would have any problem at all. Islam in the UK needs reform....Integration solves a lot of the problems..look at Sikns for example....Reformers have been saying it for a long time and the so called 'progressives' have been ignoring them for just as long. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jun 2017 11.59am)
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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.54am | |
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The link i posted is very long so here is a fragment but a very important one in understanding exactly what has been going on:
A whole generation of Muslims, therefore, has grown up with a maverick form of Islam that has given them a negative view of other faiths and an intolerantly sectarian understanding of their own. While not extremist per se, this is an outlook in which radicalism can develop. In the past, the learned exegesis of the ulema, which Wahhabis rejected, had held extremist interpretations of scripture in check; but now unqualified freelancers such as Osama Bin Laden were free to develop highly unorthodox readings of the Quran. "
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