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General Election 2017

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Hansy Flag 06 Jun 17 10.51am Send a Private Message to Hansy Add Hansy as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Exactly. What's more obnoxious? Being arrested at a protest 30 years ago outside the Old Bailey for supporting an independent Ireland and 'Troops Out' or our government selling billions of pound worth of arms last year to an overseas regime that actively finances a religious movement that propagates the terrorism that occurs here and seeks the downfall of the British state?

Vote Tory and you are 100% enabling them to sell arms to them again and for Saudi to set up more Wahhabist inspired mosques here. Vote Tory and help extreme Islam at the same time. That's the nub of it. They will never ever do anything to offend Saudi Arabia. They will put them ahead of their own citizens.

Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jun 2017 9.58am)

And he wouldn't want to sell arms to his friends in Hamas and Hezbollah? I agree that we shouldn't be selling arms there, but to say this is a Tory problem, when Labour did the exact same is silly.

Edited by Hansy (06 Jun 2017 10.52am)

 

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legaleagle Flag 06 Jun 17 11.00am

Two immediate ideas to counter the spread of islamist jihadism:

1. Review the activities of the World Muslim League...its the world wide body Saudis have used to spread Salafism globally. UK HQ is in Tottenham Court Road.

2. Downgrade ties with Saudi Arabia,including selling arms.

That would be attacking a key causal factor rather than posturing.

Who would be more likely to actually implement them? Not TM and the Tories.

So,when people stop frothing and knee jerking, Corbyn has said some v sensible things.

Internment would be about as successful as it was in N Ireland...ie not very.The thing is to isolate the jihadists within the wider muslim community (in which they are a small minority) and cut off the funding of the spread of salafist ideology on a mass scale at source.

 

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.16am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Being a supporter of terrorists that bomb Britain.

King Salman thanks you for your tacit support and understanding and want's to name the next wahhabist mosque built near you in your honour.

 


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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.27am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Hansy

And he wouldn't want to sell arms to his friends in Hamas and Hezbollah? I agree that we shouldn't be selling arms there, but to say this is a Tory problem, when Labour did the exact same is silly.

Edited by Hansy (06 Jun 2017 10.52am)

I don't think he would [sell arms to them] and the present danger is not them anyway. Hezbollah are shias, the enemies of the current terrorists, so aren't involved or interested in overseas plans attacking us, France, the US and other western countries and neither are Hamas. They have other fish to fry.

Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jun 2017 11.28am)

 


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Hansy Flag 06 Jun 17 11.34am Send a Private Message to Hansy Add Hansy as a friend

But they still believe in the destruction of Jews and/or Israel.

So what you're saying is our arms that we sell to Saudi Arabia are then shifted to ISIS? I probably need to understand the link between the two more, but it is because SA and ISIS have the same religion? Or because SA called a Religious Jihad against the Russians in Afghanistan that started it all? - Any links to description regarding the link will be helpful.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 06 Jun 17 11.35am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Exactly. What's more obnoxious? Being arrested at a protest 30 years ago outside the Old Bailey for supporting an independent Ireland and 'Troops Out' or our government selling billions of pound worth of arms last year to an overseas regime that actively finances a religious movement that propagates the terrorism that occurs here and seeks the downfall of the British state?

Vote Tory and you are 100% enabling them to sell arms to them again and for Saudi to set up more Wahhabist inspired mosques here. Vote Tory and help extreme Islam at the same time. That's the nub of it. They will never ever do anything to offend Saudi Arabia. They will put them ahead of their own citizens.

Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jun 2017 9.58am)

You talk some old s***e.

Changing government won't make any difference to that policy. We sell arms because if we didn't our enemies would. It makes no strategic sense for them to profit or have better relations with key states.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 06 Jun 17 11.36am

Originally posted by Kermit8

King Salman thanks you for your tacit support and understanding and want's to name the next wahhabist mosque built near you in your honour.

Can you tell His Majesty that there is no apostrophe in "wants".

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.46am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Hansy

But they still believe in the destruction of Jews and/or Israel.

So what you're saying is our arms that we sell to Saudi Arabia are then shifted to ISIS? I probably need to understand the link between the two more, but it is because SA and ISIS have the same religion? Or because SA called a Religious Jihad against the Russians in Afghanistan that started it all? - Any links to description regarding the link will be helpful.

This will help. A good read it is too if not a tad disturbing.

[Link]

 


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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.46am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You talk some old s***e.

Changing government won't make any difference to that policy. We sell arms because if we didn't our enemies would. It makes no strategic sense for them to profit or have better relations with key states.

And for you to peruse too

[Link]

 


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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.47am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Can you tell His Majesty that there is no apostrophe in "wants".

His Majesty thanks you again and would like you to know the writing hand of his English teacher has now been cut off.

 


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Stirlingsays Flag 06 Jun 17 11.51am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by legaleagle

Two immediate ideas to counter the spread of islamist jihadism:

1. Review the activities of the World Muslim League...its the world wide body Saudis have used to spread Salafism globally. UK HQ is in Tottenham Court Road.

2. Downgrade ties with Saudi Arabia,including selling arms.

That would be attacking a key causal factor rather than posturing.

Who would be more likely to actually implement them? Not TM and the Tories.

So,when people stop frothing and knee jerking, Corbyn has said some v sensible things.

Internment would be about as successful as it was in N Ireland...ie not very.The thing is to isolate the jihadists within the wider muslim community (in which they are a small minority) and cut off the funding of the spread of salafist ideology on a mass scale at source.

I agree that Saudi Arabia are problematical in their funding for Wahhabism. However I think it's simplistic and a nonsense to think that isolating Saudi Arabia is going to do any good at all. In fact on the balance of probabilities it is going to be counter productive.

Firstly the house of Saud are the most effective counter to Iranian influence in the region. A long way down the line ultimately avoiding possibly even nuclear war between Israel and...probably an emboldened Iran.... which could pull everyone else in....that is the first concern and a rather good idea.

Secondly giving the message to Saudi Arabia that we won't trade with you and view you as the enemy is only going to reduce our influence with it. The house of Saud has considerable economic power that it isn't wise to pick a fight with.

However the house of Saud push their ultra conservative version of Islam with a propaganda budget similar in size to the old soviet union's. It has a powerful effect in the middle eastern region and it is a problem. This problem is far more an issue from within that region though than it is here. We should always encourage western ideas with them. But ultimately it is about compromise.

Pushing the idea thought that Wahhabism has a hold in the UK mosques is not really looking into what problems that UK mosques actually have. You are looking in the wrong direction.

Here is an informative article on the issue.

[Link]

The main problem of non integrationist social divide in the UK that feeds illiberal ideas into potential extremists doesn't come from from Saud it comes from pakistan. The Deobandis Sunni form of Islam dominates British mosques.....Now if we only have Sufi Islam here I very much doubt we would have any problem at all.

Islam in the UK needs reform....Integration solves a lot of the problems..look at Sikns for example....Reformers have been saying it for a long time and the so called 'progressives' have been ignoring them for just as long.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jun 2017 11.59am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 17 11.54am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

The link i posted is very long so here is a fragment but a very important one in understanding exactly what has been going on:


"The soaring oil price created by the 1973 embargo – when Arab petroleum producers cut off supplies to the US to protest against the Americans’ military support for Israel – gave the kingdom all the petrodollars it needed to export its idiosyncratic form of Islam. The old military jihad to spread the faith was now replaced by a cultural offensive. The Saudi-based Muslim World League opened offices in every region inhabited by Muslims, and the Saudi ministry of religion printed and distributed Wahhabi translations of the Quran, Wahhabi doctrinal texts and the writings of modern thinkers whom the Saudis found congenial, such as Sayyids Abul-A’la Maududi and Qutb, to Muslim communities throughout the Middle East, Africa, Indonesia, the United States and Europe. In all these places, they funded the building of Saudi-style mosques with Wahhabi preachers and established madrasas that provided free education for the poor, with, of course, a Wahhabi curriculum. At the same time, young men from the poorer Muslim countries, such as Egypt and pakistan, who had felt compelled to find work in the Gulf to support their families, associated their relative affluence with Wahhabism and brought this faith back home with them, living in new neighbourhoods with Saudi mosques and shopping malls that segregated the sexes. The Saudis demanded religious conformity in return for their munificence, so Wahhabi rejection of all other forms of Islam as well as other faiths would reach as deeply into Bradford, England, and Buffalo, New York, as into pakistan, Jordan or Syria: everywhere gravely undermining Islam’s traditional pluralism.

A whole generation of Muslims, therefore, has grown up with a maverick form of Islam that has given them a negative view of other faiths and an intolerantly sectarian understanding of their own. While not extremist per se, this is an outlook in which radicalism can develop. In the past, the learned exegesis of the ulema, which Wahhabis rejected, had held extremist interpretations of scripture in check; but now unqualified freelancers such as Osama Bin Laden were free to develop highly unorthodox readings of the Quran. "

 


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